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Different 42lb injectors? 

 

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 Post subject: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:54 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Hi Fellas,

I've finally sorted out some longstanding issues on my powerdyne charged AU VCT. After getting fuel pressure up, fitting w2a intercooler, 36lb bosch injectors and mostly by fixing a collapsed cat, my car is now making 294rwhp @5000rpm. I'm pumped...this has been a while coming! It used to make 225rwhp at the same rpm, before modifications and subsequent issues.

Problem is that I've now run out of injectors and fuel pump! The 36lbs are maxed out, as are the two fuel pumps (standard + the capa one...which is now running full time). Tuner says that above 5000rpm the injectors can't flow enough and engine runs lean, hence rev limit is set to 5000rpm.

To be able to deliver enough fuel to match air supply up to redline, he says I'll need a bosch 044, bigger injectors and a surge tank.

I've had a quick ebay search for 42lb injectors and found a few different types or variations:

- Bosch 42lb injectors, which have black body and green tops.
- Bosch 968's (they generally also reference 'EV6'), which are all green.
- EV6 Bosch Injectors, which are blue.
- Lucas 42lb injectors.

Which of these are the best injectors for our I6 application, and why?

Thanks for your help,

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:58 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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The 968's are what I have and seem to be used by most of the XR6T guys.

Buy them off Private9 through boostedfalcon.net and he will give you a discount over ebay prices. He owns TuffCarParts now.

Have you thought about putting in an XR6T reg too?

With an XR6T reg and my 42's I expect to have enough fuel for 320rwkw. A mate has made that much with the same fuel system in a typhoon.
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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:01 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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just curios where can i get a XR6T reg? will it go into the el fuel rail or will i need the full ba XR6T fuelrail?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:02 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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From Ford for around $130.

They fit an AU rail, not sure about EL.
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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:07 pm 
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Dansedgli wrote:
From Ford for around $130.

They fit an AU rail, not sure about EL.

its just that every AU fuel rail ive seen they are part of the rail not changeable like the ef, el ones?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:10 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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The reg housing is part of the rail. The reg sits in the housing and is secured with a circlip.
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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:18 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Dansedgli wrote:
The 968's are what I have and seem to be used by most of the XR6T guys.

Buy them off Private9 through boostedfalcon.net and he will give you a discount over ebay prices. He owns TuffCarParts now.

Have you thought about putting in an XR6T reg too?

With an XR6T reg and my 42's I expect to have enough fuel for 320rwkw. A mate has made that much with the same fuel system in a typhoon.


Quick response Dan! Thanks - I'll definately talk with Private9....two of the injectors I've marked (968's and Lucas's) are from tuffcarparts.

No I've not thought about an XR6T Reg...is this a Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR)? I haven't even considered having to get more fuel delivered til yesterday! Would it be a matter of swapping the XR6T reg with the AU one, and then just tuning again with the 42lb injectors (ie. no need for bosch 044)? I'd be keen to avoid the external pump noise if possible...

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:30 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Yeah its a fuel pressure regulator. You should be able to just swap it over then get a retune. I bought one a while ago but havent fitted it yet.

You might still need a pump.

If you are not keen on an external 044 you could use a bosch 023 and make it fit in the tank. A single 023 should be fine for what you want.

The utes fuel cradlies are different to the sedans but I fit one in my tank.

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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:44 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Dansedgli wrote:
Yeah its a fuel pressure regulator. You should be able to just swap it over then get a retune. I bought one a while ago but havent fitted it yet.

You might still need a pump.

If you are not keen on an external 044 you could use a bosch 023 and make it fit in the tank. A single 023 should be fine for what you want.

The utes fuel cradlies are different to the sedans but I fit one in my tank.



I think I remember seeing that pic before Dan. Would the 023 in-tank be quiet compared to the 044? Also, is there any advantage in using the external 044 with standard in-tank (as a lift pump I think its called), over using the single 023 in-tank?

To clarify Dan, are you saying your setup will run standard in-tank, XR6T reg, 42lb injectors and this should give you the fuel you need for 300 rwkw (no aftermarket pumps)? Apols for all the questions mate, I haven't given much thought to fuel systems before!

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:08 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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JoeXR6 wrote:
Dansedgli wrote:
Yeah its a fuel pressure regulator. You should be able to just swap it over then get a retune. I bought one a while ago but havent fitted it yet.

You might still need a pump.

If you are not keen on an external 044 you could use a bosch 023 and make it fit in the tank. A single 023 should be fine for what you want.

The utes fuel cradlies are different to the sedans but I fit one in my tank.



I think I remember seeing that pic before Dan. Would the 023 in-tank be quiet compared to the 044? Also, is there any advantage in using the external 044 with standard in-tank (as a lift pump I think its called), over using the single 023 in-tank?

To clarify Dan, are you saying your setup will run standard in-tank, XR6T reg, 42lb injectors and this should give you the fuel you need for 300 rwkw (no aftermarket pumps)? Apols for all the questions mate, I haven't given much thought to fuel systems before!

Joe


Im expecting it to be fine for 3-330rwkw then the injectors might run out of puff. If XR6T's can do it with the same injectors and reg with a walbro the 023 shouldnt have any trouble.

I can hear my pump with the radio off but its not intrusive, not sure what it would be like in a sedan. An 044 would be louder if it was mounted in the boot.

A standard pump feeding a surge tank and 044 would be better when you are low on fuel. It would help prevent fuel surge. The utes dont suffer as much because the in tank cradle acts a bit like a surge tank. I think the AU's just have the pump sitting loose in the tank. My old AU used to struggle when it got under a quarter of tank. Anything above half throttle and it would cut out due to lack of fuel.
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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:54 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Dansedgli wrote:
JoeXR6 wrote:
Dansedgli wrote:
Yeah its a fuel pressure regulator. You should be able to just swap it over then get a retune. I bought one a while ago but havent fitted it yet.

You might still need a pump.

If you are not keen on an external 044 you could use a bosch 023 and make it fit in the tank. A single 023 should be fine for what you want.

The utes fuel cradlies are different to the sedans but I fit one in my tank.



I think I remember seeing that pic before Dan. Would the 023 in-tank be quiet compared to the 044? Also, is there any advantage in using the external 044 with standard in-tank (as a lift pump I think its called), over using the single 023 in-tank?

To clarify Dan, are you saying your setup will run standard in-tank, XR6T reg, 42lb injectors and this should give you the fuel you need for 300 rwkw (no aftermarket pumps)? Apols for all the questions mate, I haven't given much thought to fuel systems before!

Joe


Im expecting it to be fine for 3-330rwkw then the injectors might run out of puff. If XR6T's can do it with the same injectors and reg with a walbro the 023 shouldnt have any trouble.

I can hear my pump with the radio off but its not intrusive, not sure what it would be like in a sedan. An 044 would be louder if it was mounted in the boot.

A standard pump feeding a surge tank and 044 would be better when you are low on fuel. It would help prevent fuel surge. The utes dont suffer as much because the in tank cradle acts a bit like a surge tank. I think the AU's just have the pump sitting loose in the tank. My old AU used to struggle when it got under a quarter of tank. Anything above half throttle and it would cut out due to lack of fuel.


Right, so an external 044 with surge tank would be the best setup, but noisy. An 023 in-tank will be sufficient, and quieter.

So on your turbo setup you will be running 023 in-tank? Or just standard with XR6t Reg?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:58 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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I'll be running the 023 in the tank, 42lb injectors and the xr6t reg.
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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:04 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Cool, thanks Dan. Looking forward to seeing your build by the way.

I was going to start a new thread with pump questions but looks like that's covered now!
Regarding the abovementioned 42lb injectors, does anyone know the difference between the 968's vs. the others?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:17 pm 
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I have two 044's and yea I can hear them on start up .. But not all that noisy once primed etc...
Whats wrong with a Walbro 255 intank pump?? Under $150.00
The noise from external pumps is mainly the way they are fitted...
Using the rubber bracket and alloy insulation between body and pump so it's double insulated works fine..
42Lbrs should get you around 300 rwkw ?? Better pumps and run around 45Lb line pressure...
Should do it easy...
The Ev 1 and Ev 6 doesn't really matter.. Tho the Ev 6 is a more modern style...
With forced induction it may not matter that much ???
It just needs to supply enough fuel.. The spray pattern of the Ev6 maybe better at low rpm ??

 

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 Post subject: Re: Different 42lb injectors?
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:35 am 
Tyre Shredder
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EBXR8380 wrote:
I have two 044's and yea I can hear them on start up .. But not all that noisy once primed etc...
Whats wrong with a Walbro 255 intank pump?? Under $150.00
The noise from external pumps is mainly the way they are fitted...
Using the rubber bracket and alloy insulation between body and pump so it's double insulated works fine..
42Lbrs should get you around 300 rwkw ?? Better pumps and run around 45Lb line pressure...
Should do it easy...
The Ev 1 and Ev 6 doesn't really matter.. Tho the Ev 6 is a more modern style...
With forced induction it may not matter that much ???
It just needs to supply enough fuel.. The spray pattern of the Ev6 maybe better at low rpm ??


Just picked up my car tonight...my mechanic has set up the aftermarket inline pump which was already on my car to run all the time, in conjunction with the standard in-tank pump. He's fitted a SARD Regulator too (I guess that answers the XR6T reg question Dansedgli). The aftermarket inline is a capa pump...maybe a T-Rex or something. He's needed to do this to get enough fuel and pressure to the 36lb injectors.

The pump is offensively loud! It's always been mounted directly to the chassis (though I've never heard it before), so he's suggested I rubber mount it. Anyone got tips or pictures on how they've done this? EBXR8380, I can picture the bracket rubber, but what is the alloy insulation you're referring to? Getting this pump quiet is the first thing I'll need to do, and soon!

Regarding Walbro, I've read that a few people have had problems with them, hence why I'm interested in the bosch products. I asked him about just fitting a walbro/bosh 040/bosch 023 in-tank, but he says its very difficult to make it fit, and requires a too tight 90 degree turn of the fuel hose. I suggested a few speedflow fittings be connected in this configuration, but he doesn't think it will work...and ultimately recommends an external pump with surge tank.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks for those tips on injector differences. Sounds like EV6 (968's) are the way to go, as Dan suggested. I'm keen to get this done....the car drives awesome now despite the 5000rpm rev cut-out.

Joe

 

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