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Dyno Vs Dyno ! 

 

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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:06 am 
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Tomorrow is no good sorry... My dyno guy is away for the weekend, plus new tyres in the morning and heading to Heathcote after.

Shall we say aim for Wed/Thu night next week, immediately after working hours.
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:11 am 
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Yep cool
pm me, or sms me the details, i'm sure steve still has my number, ( unless he has deleted it !)
or email.

 

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Other car 580 hp @ wheels now 624.7 hp !!

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Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:23 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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arm79 wrote:
wild6 wrote:
like youve gained heeps since youve owned it up from 260 rwkw to over 300 rwkw
regards from adam


He got it dynoed at Hallam Dyno, that was the only difference.

Hallam seems to overestimate every dyno figure I've ever seen by 17%.

mmm... 260rwkw to just over 300rwkw.... 17% difference. 8-)


Good work champ, you must be some kind of genuis. The valve springs and more boost have done nothing and comparing the car on the same dyno was useless! What was I thinking :roll:

Thanks for ruining my thread with your dribble.
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Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:02 pm 
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Dansedgli wrote:
arm79 wrote:
wild6 wrote:
like youve gained heeps since youve owned it up from 260 rwkw to over 300 rwkw
regards from adam


He got it dynoed at Hallam Dyno, that was the only difference.

Hallam seems to overestimate every dyno figure I've ever seen by 17%.

mmm... 260rwkw to just over 300rwkw.... 17% difference. 8-)


Good work champ, you must be some kind of genuis. The valve springs and more boost have done nothing and comparing the car on the same dyno was useless! What was I thinking :roll:

Thanks for ruining my thread with your dribble.


Sorry for busting up your thread. I really had no intention of it, and I apologise. No intention of criticising yourself nor your achievements.

I typed what I typed for a specific reason and got the results I wanted.

All I'm hoping to achieve is to answer my questions (and I'm sure some others) of last nights Heathcote results.
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Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:27 pm 
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Well I spoke to Andrew, Owner of Hallam Performance, he said all is ok.
It is all up to you know.

 

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Other car 580 hp @ wheels now 624.7 hp !!

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Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:33 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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arm79 wrote:

Sorry for busting up your thread. I really had no intention of it, and I apologise. No intention of criticising yourself nor your achievements.

I typed what I typed for a specific reason and got the results I wanted.

All I'm hoping to achieve is to answer my questions (and I'm sure some others) of last nights Heathcote results.


What was wrong with the heathcote results?
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:40 am 
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Dansedgli wrote:
arm79 wrote:

Sorry for busting up your thread. I really had no intention of it, and I apologise. No intention of criticising yourself nor your achievements.

I typed what I typed for a specific reason and got the results I wanted.

All I'm hoping to achieve is to answer my questions (and I'm sure some others) of last nights Heathcote results.


What was wrong with the heathcote results?


The only thing wrong is why did a number of vehicle owners get their a** handed to them by a car with a vastly poorer rwkw figure. All are e-series, all with autos, similar diff ratios (3.23 and 3.45) with similar weights.

Most of these cars run last night were run at Hallam recently, and recorded 120rwkw... Most in the 130rwkw range. One bloke got a 108rwkw at Hallam.

Yet, the 130+rwkw cars just managed to keep with with this bloke who had a, in comparison, paltry 107rwkw, doing constant 15.6's. The bloke with 108rwkw managed a 17.1 sec pass. Only 1rwkw yeah, but a 1.5sec 1/4 mile difference....

Something just sounds really funny here.
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:49 am 
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How is the gearing in their auto's?

arent the R31's heaps lighter?
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:09 am 
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Read my post closely again, I didnt say R31's... I said:

arm79 wrote:
All are e-series, all with autos, similar diff ratios (3.23 and 3.45) with similar weights.


I'm comparing the e-series car's times here.

So I feel that the comparision in times and power is very fair.
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:15 am 
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ahh sorry :(

Im interested too then!

But what good is comparing a group A or BA for that matter on different dynos when the discrepancy was between a large amount of E series car with different drivers?

Was your car one that got owned by another with less power?

Maybe you could try and get the other guy with less power that beat someone with more power to run on both dyno's as well??

That would make for a more accurate test wouldnt it?
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 Post subject: bring it around
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:33 am 
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v8capri wrote:
I'll take u up on that !

which car do you want ? the Group A or the Ba ?

Keep in mind the Group A struggles for traction on most dynos, unless the rollers are TOP quality and it is tied down real well and hard.

The Ba would be a much more reliable and constant car.


But I am willing for either. Just to see.

Oh I have my X factor in a can, :lol: so i'll bring my own ! :lol:



i hold it down on my dyno bring it around

firstly i will not hold back on the throttle and next run hold the throttle fully open and make up results

secondly the X factor amazing how many dyno shops must be selling the X factor make up horse power mmmmmmmm X equals dollars





free of charge :wink:

 

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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:12 am 
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Dansedgli wrote:
ahh sorry :(

Im interested too then!

But what good is comparing a group A or BA for that matter on different dynos when the discrepancy was between a large amount of E series car with different drivers?

Was your car one that got owned by another with less power?

Maybe you could try and get the other guy with less power that beat someone with more power to run on both dyno's as well??

That would make for a more accurate test wouldnt it?


It does make for an interesting question... Thats why I have put my foot into it..

Im not interested in comparing various cars and their outputs... I'm concerned at comparing the reported outputs in 2 dynos. Everyone is was very quick to crucify Jim Mock and his apparent over inflated figures.

As for drivers... We are talking autos here, and its not hard to stall a car up and hold the throttle to the floor for 17 secs... This reduces driver error to virtually nil, also considering they were replicating near the times all night.

No I didnt get owned on the night... So its not me complaining... I'm looking from a purely impartial viewpoint. I feel sorry for people who are told they are making massive power figures, but the seat of pants and 1/4 trips just dont cut it with the apparent power outputs... If I was told I was always making 141rwkw and not pulling near 15 sec flat quarters, id be really friggin p****d.

My car is the control car. I should make 119rwkw, give or take a couple on my dyno. And then make 141rwkw on Hallams dyno, give or take a couple. The BA is purely there, in my view, for supporting and comparing figures... If my car does not make 141 at Hallam, I will have a s**t of questions.
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:20 am 
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Good experiment Adrian! Let the games begin!

Any chance of posting the times and locations of this so we might be able to run out and have a look also?

 

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 Post subject: Load cell
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:21 am 
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hi guys

Firstly lets have a look at some things so people understand what is going on

if the same car is run on the same brand of dyno the Hp should be the same regardless whether it be in shotout mode or just manaul mode

My dyno is a dyno dynamics late model piece of equipment like many other dynos out there

The dyno houses a Eddy current retard connect to the front rollers of the dyno which is connect to a pressure sensor(laod cell)

If i place a 1kg wieght on the end of the torque arm connnected to a load cell we should see a force exserted of 1kg and on the monitor of the dyno we should see a number equating to that force its a method dyno dynmamics have built in the dyno it self

so my piont is lets hang a know weight on the end of any dyno dynamics dyno and see what readings we get .
hence there is no driver error nor temputure or barometric changes that should affect the reading

i will post a picture so people can visualize what im saying in a few days

the shootout software has alot of questions hanging over its head??

the INTERIA (N) is another method that show a higher and lower Hp figure on the dyno

the X ( external correction ) factor is another that can shower a higher or lower dyno reading

The air tempature sensor is another that can affect different dyno readings

and then the operator behind the throttle is another big influencing factor

so to evaluate all dscrepancys ,a know weight hanging on the end of the retarter where the load cell is should be the best indicator if the dynos are calibratered the same or there all at random because a 17 % reading difference in my books is a HUGE error and needs explernation

i will post several pictures later lets see what we work out

cya

 

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 Post subject: Re: Load cell
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:40 am 
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FPV_GTp wrote:
hi guys

Firstly lets have a look at some things so people understand what is going on

if the same car is run on the same brand of dyno the Hp should be the same regardless whether it be in shotout mode or just manaul mode

My dyno is a dyno dynamics late model piece of equipment like many other dynos out there

The dyno houses a Eddy current retard connect to the front rollers of the dyno which is connect to a pressure sensor(laod cell)

If i place a 1kg wieght on the end of the torque arm connnected to a load cell we should see a force exserted of 1kg and on the monitor of the dyno we should see a number equating to that force its a method dyno dynmamics have built in the dyno it self

so my piont is lets hang a know weight on the end of any dyno dynamics dyno and see what readings we get .
hence there is no driver error nor temputure or barometric changes that should affect the reading

i will post a picture so people can visualize what im saying in a few days

the shootout software has alot of questions hanging over its head??

the INTERIA (N) is another method that show a higher and lower Hp figure on the dyno

the X ( external correction ) factor is another that can shower a higher or lower dyno reading

The air tempature sensor is another that can affect different dyno readings

and then the operator behind the throttle is another big influencing factor

so to evaluate all dscrepancys ,a know weight hanging on the end of the retarter where the load cell is should be the best indicator if the dynos are calibratered the same or there all at random because a 17 % reading difference in my books is a HUGE error and needs explernation

i will post several pictures later lets see what we work out

cya


hrmm quite interesting.
It does make sense,
We are involved in calibrating instruments, and do have the certified weights that you mention.

Oh to dyno the Group A I will inspect you tie downs and your tie down methods, as the car gets very skatey and usually wheel spins after 600 hp.
The best way I have found to dyno it is tie it down the best and a full car load of guys !

Some may laugh but it picks up 30-40 rw kw that way !

Oh and this started cause the Hallam dyno is being accused of reading 17% higher.
so when this is done i expect to see 17% difference in results.
Then I will approach Gerry at Dyno dynamics with the results and ask for a reason why.

We should do a dyno crawl !!
The more the merrier. :lol:

 

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Ford Capri nat asp 9.7 @ 140 mph
Other car 580 hp @ wheels now 624.7 hp !!

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