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EMS. Which one 

 

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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:32 am 
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sly wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
the speed density eec does
not have the capacity to deal with positive pressure above only 2 lbs.
It's strategy cannot unfortunately be changed.

What you say is correct, up to a point. That point is the end of EL production. For the AU Ford changed from a digital separate MAP sensor to an analogue one integrated with the IAT. The MAP signal on AU's on is therefore a voltage nominally between 0 and +5V, though typically between +0.2V and +4.8V.

What this means for AU and later models, is that the ECU can be made to "read boost" by the simple expedient of wiring in an aftermarket 2, 3, or 5-bar analogue MAP sensor in place of the pressure (vacuum) signal from the stock TMAP, and rescaling load-dependent variables to suit, using tuning tools such as Advantage or Sniper.

I realise most of the posts above relate to E-series, so this is not of much help in that regard. But it seems to be a little-known fact that the AU differs from the E-series in this critical area. An AU owner reading the previous posts would form the mistaken impression that to boost his engine successfully he'd need to fork out for an aftermarket ECU.


I don't need an aftermarket ECU if I turbo my AU? Please tell me more, via pm if need be.
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:37 am 
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xcabbi wrote:
sly wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
the speed density eec does
not have the capacity to deal with positive pressure above only 2 lbs.
It's strategy cannot unfortunately be changed.

What you say is correct, up to a point. That point is the end of EL production. For the AU Ford changed from a digital separate MAP sensor to an analogue one integrated with the IAT. The MAP signal on AU's on is therefore a voltage nominally between 0 and +5V, though typically between +0.2V and +4.8V.

What this means for AU and later models, is that the ECU can be made to "read boost" by the simple expedient of wiring in an aftermarket 2, 3, or 5-bar analogue MAP sensor in place of the pressure (vacuum) signal from the stock TMAP, and rescaling load-dependent variables to suit, using tuning tools such as Advantage or Sniper.

I realise most of the posts above relate to E-series, so this is not of much help in that regard. But it seems to be a little-known fact that the AU differs from the E-series in this critical area. An AU owner reading the previous posts would form the mistaken impression that to boost his engine successfully he'd need to fork out for an aftermarket ECU.


I don't need an aftermarket ECU if I turbo my AU? Please tell me more, via pm if need be.


Isn't your AU on gas?

Just run it straight gas with a second...converter?(i forget which one) and a GRA throttlebody. EFFalcon turbo'd his EF for under 3grand like that, got good results too.

 

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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:44 am 
Getting Side Ways
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The taxi is factory dual fuel (viale converter and VDO stepper motor for closed lood control) but the fairlane is straight petrol. Either way this really pricked my ears up.
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:31 am 
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XR9UTE wrote:
That is actually not my point (although I was sticking to E/X-series because that's what he has).
My point is actually more fundamental. The EEC speed density strategy,even though it will read the positive pressure signal from the sensor it simply is not able to process it. Thus the calibration must be "fudged" to allow forced induction to work.
In fact the stock Pre-AU frequency output MAP sensor will read to +40psi quite easily. It's just that the eec itself can't do anything with it. Even if you rescale the MAP transfer function within the EEC. So I'm not saying you can't actually calibrate the engine with forced induction it's just that you can't really do it properly.

OK but does the same apply to the AU? This thread could get really muddy... I'll start a new one so we can separate AU and E-series discussion,as it looks like others are interested in the AU and I don't want to hijack the thread.

 

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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:53 pm 
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Does this mean that an AU ems system will solve the problem?

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:44 pm 
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sly wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
That is actually not my point (although I was sticking to E/X-series because that's what he has).
My point is actually more fundamental. The EEC speed density strategy,even though it will read the positive pressure signal from the sensor it simply is not able to process it. Thus the calibration must be "fudged" to allow forced induction to work.
In fact the stock Pre-AU frequency output MAP sensor will read to +40psi quite easily. It's just that the eec itself can't do anything with it. Even if you rescale the MAP transfer function within the EEC. So I'm not saying you can't actually calibrate the engine with forced induction it's just that you can't really do it properly.

OK but does the same apply to the AU? This thread could get really muddy... I'll start a new one so we can separate AU and E-series discussion,as it looks like others are interested in the AU and I don't want to hijack the thread.


After several hours exaimining the AU code last night it appears to be in the same boat I'm afraid. It seems there is no provision to rescale the MAP axes on any of the maps and even the MAP transfer function won't allow positive MAP above 2.2psi.
I'd go for Turbo BA PCM Phum.

Pete.
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:33 am 
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XR9UTE wrote:
It seems there is no provision to rescale the MAP axes on any of the maps and even the MAP transfer function won't allow positive MAP above 2.2psi.
I'd go for Turbo BA PCM Phum.

Pete.


I don't presume to know more than you on the subject of EEC codes and/or strategies but I do know that you're wrong about the MAP not dealing with boost.
I know this because my car is running very well with 10psi on a stock EEC-IV! No aftermarket computer in there at all!
The EEC-IV/MAP will not tolerate 11psi. I know that because I've been there and it just cuts fuel and dies in the a**.

It is so easy to set up a turbo E-Series with the EEC-IV and run 10psi. All you need, really, is a 12:1 fuel pressure reg plumbed in after your stock reg.
To try and get the BA computer to work would be an absolute nightmare, I'm not sure why you would suggest that? Unless you've made it work in something other than a BA and can provide some wiring info to make it easier.
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:19 am 
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BI6TIM wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
It seems there is no provision to rescale the MAP axes on any of the maps and even the MAP transfer function won't allow positive MAP above 2.2psi.
I'd go for Turbo BA PCM Phum.

Pete.


I don't presume to know more than you on the subject of EEC codes and/or strategies but I do know that you're wrong about the MAP not dealing with boost.
I know this because my car is running very well with 10psi on a stock EEC-IV! No aftermarket computer in there at all!
The EEC-IV/MAP will not tolerate 11psi. I know that because I've been there and it just cuts fuel and dies in the a**.

It is so easy to set up a turbo E-Series with the EEC-IV and run 10psi. All you need, really, is a 12:1 fuel pressure reg plumbed in after your stock reg.
To try and get the BA computer to work would be an absolute nightmare, I'm not sure why you would suggest that? Unless you've made it work in something other than a BA and can provide some wiring info to make it easier.



Your missing the point.....The EEC can't deal with positive pressure but the MAP sensor can handle +40psi.
As I said tuning is able to be accomplished but just not the way it should be....The EEC simply doesn't have the strategy to account for positive pressure.
It's easy to get a BA pcm to work...just reflash it with all the smartshield and other unnecessary stuff turned off. Piece-o-piss.
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:12 pm 
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BI6TIM wrote:
All you need, really, is a 12:1 fuel pressure reg plumbed in after your stock reg.

You've just explained it all right there. You are making up for the EEC's inability to deal with (and calculate fuel for) all that extra air by adding an FMU to do it instead. Consider the FMU as an aftermarket analog fuel-only computer if you like. Kind of like "reprogramming" the ignition advance with a half-inch spanner and a twist of the distributor ;)

There is a world of difference between "making it work" and tuning it properly...
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:49 pm 
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May as well fit a small pipe to fuel line and have fuel added to inlet.. FMU's just DUMP fuel!! There is NO ECU metering whatsoever!!! It works but so does a basball bat hit to head to relieve pain...

 

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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:55 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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I'm not saying it's the best option, not by a long shot. That's why I have an EMS8860 sitting on my shelf ready to go in.
I wanted to see how far I could push the stock stuff, safely. It's turned out really surprising actually, I didn't imagine it would work this good. The car has made 347rwhp and the AFR's are safe. Of course I could make more power and better fuel economy with the EMS for the same boost but for those that are on a tight budget, this works!

Again, I am by no means saying it's the best option. I do not need to be sold on the benefits of an aftermarket computer, I have already bought one!
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:21 pm 
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xr8ute wrote:
BI6TIM wrote:
All you need, really, is a 12:1 fuel pressure reg plumbed in after your stock reg.

You've just explained it all right there. You are making up for the EEC's inability to deal with (and calculate fuel for) all that extra air by adding an FMU to do it instead. Consider the FMU as an aftermarket analog fuel-only computer if you like. Kind of like "reprogramming" the ignition advance with a half-inch spanner and a twist of the distributor ;)

There is a world of difference between "making it work" and tuning it properly...


Zigactly!
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:37 pm 
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EBXR8380 wrote:
May as well fit a small pipe to fuel line and have fuel added to inlet..

A microfueller????

 

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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:56 pm 
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sly wrote:
EBXR8380 wrote:
May as well fit a small pipe to fuel line and have fuel added to inlet..

A microfueller????

As in Microtech ?? Lol...

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:04 am 
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XR9UTe
I was thinking about wiring in a BA PCM but heard some people having problems getting it to work.
Not sure what the problem was but think that the Reflashing programs available do not allow you to turn off certain functions to allow it to be used as a stand alone computer.
If you know otherwise please enlighten what reflash box you would recomend.

 

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