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Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing? 

 

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 Post subject: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:05 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Hey fellas,

My old man has a fully reconditioned head he just gave to me as he just bought a BF2 tray top ute in lieu of his trusty AU1 futura.

He said it costed him $350 to get it reconditioned/change over, he had it on his previous engine idling for about 1/2hour as he thought his head was stuffed but found out that the bottom end carked it. So took it off.

Anyway, long story short, he said it hasnt done any work what so ever and wanted to know if I wanted the head BBM and stock cam for spares, free. So I said yeah I'll take it.

Now a few things went thru my mind as I saw this basically new head sitting in the boot of my car.

Since I have forced induction on my beast, would some of you proven guru's recommend giving this head say, a mild port job and clean up of casting dags and match its flow with a mild cam to suit my application? or would porting be a waste of money?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:22 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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for sure.

A good clean up, if it is a recondition head, it more than likely would have been skimmed/shaved so comp will be slightly higher with some power to be had.

Though i would get it done, but i wouldnt swap it over until you have to or untill you get bored. :D

 

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Now N/A (permanent Lag) - AFR 165's, Comp XE270 cam, 1.6 RR - 269 rwhp 14.1 @ 102mph.

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:43 am 
Getting Side Ways
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schnoods wrote:
for sure.

A good clean up, if it is a recondition head, it more than likely would have been skimmed/shaved so comp will be slightly higher with some power to be had.

Though i would get it done, but i wouldnt swap it over until you have to or untill you get bored. :D


cheers.

I was told that port clean up, larger intake vlaves and a decent cam will reap the best benefits for my setup.

Do you think 30rwkw extra is achievable?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:58 am 
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i'd pay the extra after reading the latest on the au raptor thread,
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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:13 am 
Getting Side Ways
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depends on the cam you have now, is it for supercharged engine?

iirc you have dual fuel setup? but it doesnt run on gas yet?

The headwork will be a definate gain and a proper supercharge cam will be a definate gain. 30 rwkw? hard to say, but you might think its possible over stock.

remember you can never get the tune perfect for both gas and petrol so if my memory is on this morning and its a DF setup, going straight gas or straight pertol might be an advantage, that way you wont have to make compromises in the tunes.

I hear these SOHC sixes do really love FI and gas both together for power and economy, as the gas has a 104 octane rating allowing for more perfect timing and boost pressure without pinging.

 

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Last edited by Grimketel on Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:16 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Grimketel wrote:
ependthe cam you have is it for superchraged engine?

iirc you have dual fuel setup? but it doesnt run on gas yet?

The headwork will be a definate gain and a proper supercharge cam will be a definate gain. 30 rwkw? hard to say, but you might think its possible over stock.

remember you can never get the tune perfect for both gas and petrol so if my memory is on this morning and its a DF setup, going straight gas or straight pertol might be an advantage, that way you wont have to make compromises in the tunes.

I hear these SOHC sixes do really love FI and gas both together for power and economy, as the gas has a 104 octane rating allowing for more perfect timing and boost pressure without pinging.


Cheers mate. I removed the LPG system altogether. Im running on BP Ultimate straight now.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:22 am 
Getting Side Ways
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that makes it easier then.

it all depends on how well the cam you have suits your application. if its pretty good for the setup you have already then gains wont be as flash but the head will definately improve things. You would need the specs of your current cam, so you can talk to a cams specialist, like wade cams over the phone, and see if theres a better one for your level of boost. If theres gains to be had they will be able to tell you.

where does the boost gauge take the reading from? you might get a few% better cylinder fill with some free'er flowing heads up top, as at rpm you can imagine the effort required to cram all that air through a stock intake port.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:33 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Grimketel wrote:
that makes it easier then.

it all depends on how well the cam you have suits your application. if its pretty good for the setup you have already then gains wont be as flash but the head will definately improve things. You would need the specs of your current cam, so you can talk to a cams specialist, like wade cams over the phone, and see if theres a better one for your level of boost. If theres gains to be had they will be able to tell you.

where does the boost gauge take the reading from? you might get a few% better cylinder fill with some free'er flowing heads up top, as at rpm you can imagine the effort required to cram all that air through a stock intake port.


I appreciate your help here. The cam I was told will have a stockish idle. But obviously allow more air/fuel in without being undriveable. Bruce Heinrich is my tuner, and he was the one who recommended the saloon car cam which is loosely based on the AU/VT 6 cylinder saloon racing specs. Bruce used to race these cars.

The Saloon cam he normally uses is a Crow billet grind. He knows what the specs are for racing, but he said he will make a few adjustments with the grind in conjunction with Crow to create a grind thats suitable for my car in particular.

The boost gauge reads off the BOV. I have a bosch non audible BOV. I fitted the gauge to the vacuum line from there.

Maximum boost reading I get is 7lbs at about 5000-5500rpm.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:42 am 
Getting Side Ways
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im not really sure if im right here or not, but the stock ports, being more of a hinderance to the airflow than larger ports, would inflate boost in the line. 7 psi of boost in the line might not equate to 7 psi of boost in the cylinder chamber. with a larger port you might find that the boost is more efficient at filling the cylinders at mid-high rpm. Im using might because all im going off here is just rational thinking, or what I deem to be rational thinking lol.

I could be wrong due to some unknown behaviour aspect of boost that Im unaware of.

If bruce says so its good enough for me lol, he was my fav saloon car driver few yrs back when i used to watch it. Im sure he could work some real magic on that head, and I reckon you will easy crack open 200 rwkw. You could probably safley up the pulley size until you hit abt 8-9 psi of boost as well for more juice. w2a intercooling, and you could just go nuts lol.

Thats the problem with modding, its difficult to see where you have drawn the line in the sand as the power tide keeps coming in and washing it away.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:54 am 
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Grimketel wrote:
im not really sure if im right here or not, but the stock ports, being more of a hinderance to the airflow than larger ports, would inflate boost in the line. 7 psi of boost in the line might not equate to 7 psi of boost in the cylinder chamber. with a larger port you might find that the boost is more efficient at filling the cylinders at mid-high rpm. Im using might because all im going off here is just rational thinking, or what I deem to be rational thinking lol.

I could be wrong due to some unknown behaviour aspect of boost that Im unaware of.

If bruce says so its good enough for me lol, he was my fav saloon car driver few yrs back when i used to watch it. Im sure he could work some real magic on that head, and I reckon you will easy crack open 200 rwkw. You could probably safley up the pulley size until you hit abt 8-9 psi of boost as well for more juice. w2a intercooling, and you could just go nuts lol.

Thats the problem with modding, its difficult to see where you have drawn the line in the sand as the power tide keeps coming in and washing it away.


LOL. yeah your right with that. But when someone throws you parts you could add to your engine, your mind starts to wander in directions it probably shouldnt. :lol:

Im not up to scratch with the science of FI, but I can kind of see what your saying to boost/port sizing etc.

I have full faith in what Bruce can do. He's a bloody genius with fords both NA and Forced. He pretty much put together and tuned my current setup. There is very very little he cant do with a ford. But my car is the first car is fitted a Raptor to. He never heard of them prior. But from the times he has worked on my car and tuned it, he has been somewhat impressed with what it can do considering its size compared to say the Powerdyne or Vortech.

I reckon I might just write a small list of possibilities and ask his professional opinion of what is worthwhile and what isnt.

One thing he tells me time and again, is forget dyno numbers. He reckons dont look to dyno numbers and being the deciding factor of what the car is like. He states seat of the pants feeling is what you gauge your impressions on. I for one would like to see more torque in the bottom to mid range areas. I wonder what his answers will be?

 

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Last edited by shav on Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:39 pm 
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Let us know what he says Shav....always interesting!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:43 pm 
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JoeXR6 wrote:
Let us know what he says Shav....always interesting!


I certainly will Joe. I'll try and see him before the end of the week and get his opinions and post back.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Cool. I've had head work done on my AU VCT after a blown head gasket (got ARP head studs too). Chambers were enlarged quite a lot as this was done to reduce compression to around 9:1. But since this work was completed, I wasn't able to get a satisfactory tune without pinging, presumably due to upgrading boost through my supercharger at the same time.

Anyway, I'll be interested to hear what the verdict is on the value of porting. I sort of had to get it done at the time. See what Bruce says.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:54 am 
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Ports are relatively fine.. Its the bowl area around the valve and unshrouding the valves in chamber..
If it detonates ?? It's a timing / tune issue if compression has been lowered..
Colder plugs help with reduced electrode.. Normal [1 plug colder] plugs seem to work best..
LPG plugs up to moderate levels seem to work fine with .80mm gap..

 

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 Post subject: Re: Head porting for supercharged engine - worth doing?
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:47 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Im not running LPG anymore, and Im using either xr6 plugs or xr6turbo plugs depending on what is available when at the time.

 

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