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M90 supercharger questions. 

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:40 pm 
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Quote:
ed air con idler


I have a complete EA Ghia engine sitting there.. would it have the same belt tensioner as the ED? I'm guessing it probably does.. will look at that also, but I did see a possible way to use the exising tensioner (by looping the belt around the charger, then back to the idler. and then back to the air con.. that would give pretty good wrap around the SC pulley.. Will probably be alright with the 3.5 inch pulley it has now.. might still be an issue when I swap to a small one though..

This is great stuff.. once I get the mounting and belt finished, I'll start getting ready for the speed swap and front crossmember..(I want the whole front end to be EL including xmember etc) And I figure the best time to swap all of that is while the motor is sitting on the floor.

If I thought an AU front undercarriage would fit, I'd swap to that. (can get either cheap....)
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:10 pm 
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wont work the way you described the spring load and the strenght design of the tensioner is the other way, it pulls the belt away from the water pump towards the blower

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:35 pm 
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LOL. have to give that some thought.. perhaps I can reverse it.. worse comes to worse, I can lock it in place and then put a tensioner elsewhere.. (you did something like that yes?)
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:00 pm 
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Hey,

I admire your persistence to do something different. When i first checked position, i thought "how the f**k do you get to the dizzy", hang on he must be gonna run coil packs.....nope.....remote TFI.........sweet. Set the timing and let the ecu do the rest...Heat could be a prob, but like you said they heat the air themselves, so it doesnt matter really. Good to have a thermo close by......lol.....blowing hot air onto it.

I mounted one of the M90 onto 6G72 V6. Alot of work, and mine was mounted in alot better position. I assume you intend to blow thru an intercooler to the T/B??? Pressure loss could be a fair bit????

Sorry, but it seems like a like of effort for very little gain. FWIW, xfpaul mounted his in the best position, but he's running gas, and no intercooler???

Good luck with the rest of the project, and i hope it turns out to be worthwhile.

Cheers

Daz

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Hi Daz....

So far I've not had to buy anything but the charger and the oil relocation kit.. which works out to somewhere around 750ish dollars.

Heat won't be a problem because it is in the flow of the thermo and a great deal of air coming from under the front bar... doesn't get much cooler than that.

I can still get to the Dizzy if I want. to do the timing.. but have to pull out the sc to remove dizzy. (not expecting to need to do that much)

So far I have invested 750 and about 7 hours of my labour, not to much I think...

If the end result is around 10psi and it cost me less than a month of weekends and 1500 bucks.. I suspect it'll be worth it fine. And if it causes me to put a rod though the block... so what? the motor cost me $120.. and I'll replace it with an AU bottom end.

I'm getting an intercooler from a friend for a hundred bucks as well.

There should be hardly any pressure loss because the way I have it located.. no (non standard) pipe should be much longer than a foot or two. (The intercooler I'm getting has both inlet and outlet on the same "passenger" side) so the air comes out of pod.. one foot to intake of M90, then straight out the bottom through the forward facing adapter and about a foot into the intercooler... and straight out from there into intake.. I can keep it all as simple as possible..

I don't know what the results will be.. but XFpaul seems pretty happy with the results performance wise.

Besides.. if it costs me 1500 all up.. and gives me say 170kw at the back wheels.. than I've still spent less than the people achieving that sort of figure. (and I expect more to be honest) I already have extractors, and a very free flowing exhaust.. so once I find the appropriate cam.. I should be making decent numbers.

Time will tell, and the main thing is that I'm having fun and getting out of the house..

rgds

Frank
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 Post subject: Todays progress report with photos
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:12 pm 
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Today I worked on the mounting bracket I'll need to bolt the charger in and hold it tight..

As always I made a cardboard one first to get the size right. I expected to use thinish metal and brace it with angle iron around the edges for structural strength.. (didn't think I'd get anything thicker to fit.) but thats what all the angled edges are in the cardboard version.

Image

The cardboard dummy was fitted in place with the supercharger over and over till I had it right. Eventually it was as close to perfect as I could make it.

Then I transfered it to steel.. but I took a look around my shed and found an old BBQ plate that I'd made but never used.. it was 5 or 6mm thick.. so now I don't need all the bracing on the sides.. and I modified the design slightly so the charger sits more in the bracket rather than on it.. which solved the fitting issues..

Here is the mostly finished steel bracket sitting over the inlet of the charger.
The photo doesn't really show how thick the steel is...

Image

I even found a use for the spacer tubes from the EL air con bolts (which are not needed now because I have an EA air con bracket on there.) The tubes will go between the mounting holes on the charger and the bracket as you can see in the photo, there is a gap of about an inch between them.

Here is another photo from a different angle..

Image


Cost so far...
------------------------------------------
- Eaton M90. $650
- Oil Filter relocation kit. $90
- 6 cutting disks 4 grinder $10
- BBQ plate. $0.00
- EA air con bracket $0.00
- EL air con spacer tubes $0.00
-------------------------------------------
TOTAL $750.00

To Do:
I have yet to drill the bracket accordingly, or add the three mounting tabs that allow it to bolt to the engine block. (two of the tabs go on the inside edge, one goes underneath unto the unused hole on the air con bracket.

The tabs are just angle iron that is cut about an inch or so wide and welded to the bracket in the appropriate places.

Once the tabs are in place, I can bolt it on onto the block and start trying to figure out the pulley arrangement so that I can have as much contact between pulley and belt as possible to eliminate slippage.

Then I start stealth fitting an intercooler.... but that is for later on down the track.

rgds

Frank


Once

Last edited by frankieh on Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:54 am 
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awesome work

time to get me an m90 and u to make me a plate :P

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:40 am 
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had the same intercooler your talking about double flow same side in and out , it was to restrictive , bar / plate area was smaller than the rest of the plumbing changed it single flow much better.

i still running au spring tensioner , it chases belt stretch , which was a problem with my first ea-ed tensioner setup i had, now have best of both worlds using both tensioners, i cut away the two passenger side tabs on the AU tensioner to mount the ed slide bracket to the same bolts , also tab attached to the thermo housing and stay back to air con mount

wont need bypass for blower running blow through , but will need bov same as turbo

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:16 am 
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ok, that is interesting.. I didn't know about the BOV... I thought they were illegal.. but what else can you do?
(or is it the ones that vent to air rather than the intake that are illegal?)

I must admit, I was under the impression that bypass wasn't necessary on the m90 because of this article:
http://www.autospeed.com/A_110295/cms/article.html

Quote:
Note that boost pressure is controlled by an air bypass system, which is found at the rear of the supercharger. When the engine doesn’t require boost, induction air supplied from the blower is returned to its inlet.


I don't see anything like that on the back of my sc....

Can I get a photo or two of your belt arrangement Mr Paul? it might be helpful for me when the time comes.
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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:07 pm 
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bov is legal if it's plumbed back to the airbox isn't it ?

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:32 pm 
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What did turbo cars use before BOV's???

Is there anyway to get my bypass valve working with blow through induction?

I want this thing to look and sound stealth.. a BOV is going to advertise itself isn't it?

Last edited by frankieh on Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:20 pm 
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a bov can be plumb back into the inlet to reduce the noise , they are used to release the pressure as the throtle is closed and keep the turbo spining ,as aposed to stalling it and having to spin it up again on a roots blower the actual pumping efiency is much better, if that pressure cant go anywhere the blower will stall causeing at least belt wear or through the belt off the pulley

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:16 pm 
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frankieh wrote:
What did turbo case use before BOV's???

Is there anyway to get my bypass valve working with blow through induction?

I want this thing to look and sound stealth.. a BOV is going to advertise itself isn't it?


Yes, a bypass valve can be used with blow thru induction too. Makes virtually no noise at all, you wont hear it.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:13 am 
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the bypass is not a pressure release valve , it is orig fitted to bypass the blower at low engine speeds so that the throtle/ idle speed controler is directly conected to the manifold , it is controlled by vacum , is fitted to smooth low end idle , remove the lope that most blowers cause at low rpm pulses and increase throtle reponse , vacum opens the plate and pressure closes it reverse to what you want

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:20 am 
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i'll try not to confuse here ,but i have both fitted to my setup , the bypass as explained and a bov not for the reason you need one , but as a back fire pressure release so i dont blow the pipe work and or intercooler to bits espesially when its full of lpg.

sorry about spelling very tired

 

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