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Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached) 

 

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 Post subject: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:46 am 
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Hi All,

I've been trying to build a better pre-compressor intake pipe setup for my powerdyne supercharged I6. The kit is a capa one originally, and came with an old XF intake elbow into the back of the supercharger (3.5 inch). Its super tight back there, even having 'panel beated' the strut tower in a little. Original intake elbow below:
Attachment:
intake5.jpg
intake5.jpg [ 30.9 KiB | Viewed 39 times ]


It has these huge ribs in it that can be clearly seen. They're poor for airflow, and cause water/meth from my water injection to puddle inside them. They're supported by metal rings, which are also rusting as a result. At the far end, which can't be clearly seen, the ribs stop and the intake goes perfectly smooth. Pity its not like this all the way through.

To improve this I've bought and modified a 3.5inch silicone 90 degree elbow, and squeezed it in. I've joined this (with a stainless metal ring) to a flexi rubber tube (3.5 inch), which joins to the black metal sleeve for the water injection, and so on.... See below:

Attachment:
intake2.jpg
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Attachment:
intake1.jpg
intake1.jpg [ 34.52 KiB | Viewed 39 times ]

Attachment:
intake3.jpg
intake3.jpg [ 37.81 KiB | Viewed 30 times ]


I'd still like to change the flexi rubber tube for metal, so that there are no ribs to restrict air or water/meth. I also have a concern that the blue silicone elbow may 'suck in' on boost, as its not supported. The original ribbed elbow, as per 1st pic, has significant rubber bracing and is quite stiff...

A couple of questions for you guys:

1. Is there a better way to do this!? Has anyone had to fit a 90 degree bend in an extrememely tight spot, and found something that's not restrictive, but is also well supported (ie won't suck in)?

2. Is there any value at this stage in upgrading the pre-supercharger intake pipework to 4 inch, and then reduce back to 3.5 inch just before the SC inlet? To do this I could buy and modify a 4-3.5 inch silicone reducer bend, and go to 4 inch alu tube down into a 4 inch neck pod (lives in the bumper)... Would it be worth the effort and cost?

Cheers and thanks for the help,
Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:28 pm 
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Get yourself some tight radius aluminium donuts from ARE, weld them together, and away you go.......

Daz

 

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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:47 pm 
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Joe do you know what she's putting out HP wise?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:07 pm 
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Why is your water/meth getting into the air intake pipe pre the supercharger? Surely this only gets added to the air after the supercharger?
Personally I find the CAPA supplied XF pipe to work fine - I've steped down to a 2.5" pulley as well (my Powerdyne has been rebuilt by Raptor Supercharger to handle the extra internal RPM).

 

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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:31 pm 
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I fabbed mine up, i did a fair bit of panel beating to the wheel arch to get it to clear.

I ended up using a Wire spiral ducting to go into the inlet then made up a pie to go down there. With the spiral wired pipe , it doesnt collapse and stays circular, but also can be bent to a non existant radius.its a 3 1/2 inch diametre.

Image

 

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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:00 pm 
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Sweet.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:19 pm 
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schnoods wrote:
I fabbed mine up, i did a fair bit of panel beating to the wheel arch to get it to clear.


Do the blowers sit in the same position on the V8's as on the 6's? I can see that it's in the same area, but almost looks like it sits further forward and more center, might be because it's not a PD as well though.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:55 pm 
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badcooky wrote:
Joe do you know what she's putting out HP wise?


Badcooky, was 250rwhp before fiddling with headwork, upgrade impeller, water injection, etc. Not sure at the moment.

Quote:
Why is your water/meth getting into the air intake pipe pre the supercharger? Surely this only gets added to the air after the supercharger?
Personally I find the CAPA supplied XF pipe to work fine - I've steped down to a 2.5" pulley as well (my Powerdyne has been rebuilt by Raptor Supercharger to handle the extra internal RPM).


twr7cx - water/meth is injected pre-supercharger. Can be injected post as well (will probably use two nozzles and inject at both points soon). Pre supercharger increases efficiency of the compressor and cools the unit and subsequently the intake air. I've got the same raptor internals as you, with the 9psi capa pulley.

Schnoods - the spiral wire option could be worth a go. The rest of my current intake uses this. I'm trying to keep any wire 'ribs' out of the system, but admittedly they stretch out and are not super restrictive.

Dazzle, the tight radius pipe from ARE would be great, but expensive if I can't weld at that level! No doubt would be the best option.

What do you guys think about stepping up from 3.5 to 4 inch in the pre-supercharger intake pipework....any advantage to this at all? Or extra work/cost unnecessarily?

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:09 pm 
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Anyone got any pics of the intake side for an install on a 6? Particularly where you mount your pod and how you get the 90deg to fit without crushing it.

Jason
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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:38 pm 
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the OPs is a six, or are you looking for Vortech?

twr7cx, the V8 vortech kits sit further back and further out judging by joexr6s pics, mine doesn't have that much room for a 3.5" 90. No idea on the powerdyne location, it would be similar I reckon.

I'm headscratching on my intake too at the minute, probably will end up doing exactly what joexr6 has done with the 90 (except a bit more squished haha), except will either have pod sitting behind blower near shock tower, or tig up a decent bend to get it around blower to sit a pod behind the headlight.
Don't want to cut a 90mm hole in the guard with the Sprint, I'd feel bad :(

 

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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:41 pm 
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Steady ED, a straightish pipe going back into the engine bay would be preferable if you can fit it. Apparently there's a fair bit of air flow restriction through the 180 degree bend we need to get to the back of the blower.

My concern is also with the 3.5 silicone bend 'sucking in' on boost. This would be exaggerated I think if the normal round shape is already crushed in and structurally weakened by the strut tower. Has anyone, maybe even the turbo fellas, had the experience of a bend being sucked in on itself? Or is it not really an issue?

Also, what do people know about the value of upsizing pre-compressor pipework to 4inch, but reducing back to 3.5 just before the blower? Doing this would cost around:

$60 for silicone reducer bend
$50 for 4 inch 90 degree alu bend
$40 for 4 inch 135 degree alu bend
$40 for 4 inch neck pod filter
(All from ebay)

So its a $190 proposition...which is why I'd be keen to hear if there is any benefit!

Cheers,
Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:44 pm 
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silicone bends are generally made to a standard that they don't suck in on themselves.
thats why they're used.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:11 pm 
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If theres enough of a restriction in the intake they will suck in.
Tristan/BLKPHN had it happen with his F6 and the plazmaman intake when the air filter was apparently a restriction when he first got it tuned.

Joe, I think the 4" is only going to be beneficial if the 3.5" is a restriction, which I can't see it being?
The only way to be sure I guess would be to fit a magnehelic gauge or something, or do the water tube thing which autospeed has covered.
That would also answer you worries about the silicon bend being sucked in, if you've alot of vacuum in the intake it could be an issue.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:24 pm 
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RE the 4" intake, I think there's a higher likelihood that your air filter would be a restriction rather than a 3.5" intake pipe.

I cant get a 3.5" 90deg silicone bend in behind there without crushing it to about 2" wide where the shock tower is. I cant see enough in the first post's pics to see if its an EF-EL to see if there's a better way or the bends used have a tighter radius. As these Powerdynes run on the serpentine system they sit pretty far back. My alternative is to try and use flex hose all the way from the blower. I also need to find a small enough pod to fit behind the headlight.

Ill take some pics tonight.

I think Steve's EA has a 3.5" pipe bend which would be the best but I need something to get it drivable.
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 Post subject: Re: Pre-Supercharger Air Intake Q's (Pics Attached)
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:41 pm 
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galapogos01 wrote:
Anyone got any pics of the intake side for an install on a 6? Particularly where you mount your pod and how you get the 90deg to fit without crushing it.

Jason


im assuming the powerdyne set up is similar to the raptor v in how the intake is?

here is a pic of mine using 3" pipe and the pod fitted to the raptor s/c..
Attachment:
DSC01410.JPG
DSC01410.JPG [ 260.75 KiB | Viewed 57 times ]


and a pic of the rear of the pipe between the s/c and inner guard..
Attachment:
dsc01411 chopeed.jpg
dsc01411 chopeed.jpg [ 80.99 KiB | Viewed 41 times ]
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