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Right pistona for Turbo Ef 6cyl 

 

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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 5:41 pm 
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ebs_4l wrote:
what head gaket easprint??

Ford AU Steel Gasket. Haven't had any issues with it so far.

 

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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 8:13 pm 
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whats the compression now with the dished pistons and au head gasket?
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:45 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
there are other way aswell.

like a set of 6inch long eagle small block chev rods are half the price of a set of H-beam BA rods.


How can these be used? I contemplated these too but Chev rods are only 0.940" wide and E series rods are 0.994" wide. Maximum side clearance is 0.014", not 0.054".

I don't see how these would be any good at all?

Am I missing something? I hope so!

Chris
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:48 pm 
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jump on fordsix.com and talk to xctasy.
he's had the running

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:33 am 
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chris1966 wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
there are other way aswell.

like a set of 6inch long eagle small block chev rods are half the price of a set of H-beam BA rods.


How can these be used? I contemplated these too but Chev rods are only 0.940" wide and E series rods are 0.994" wide. Maximum side clearance is 0.014", not 0.054".

I don't see how these would be any good at all?

Am I missing something? I hope so!

Chris


remember that clearnce is to keep the rod in the right spot.
if you ever have the chance to see the bottom end of a nascar engine, you'll see side clearences alot bigger then even 54thou.
they run a narrow bigend to reduce bearing width, that help to recude mechanical losses, rod location is taken care of at teh small end, with tight clearnces between the pin boss in the piston and the rod.

if you are building and engine to the point of really needing stronger rods thing like that should be given real thought

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:53 pm 
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I have given it thought. That's why I'm saying it wont work. The piston wont locate the rod unless you get some custom pistons done and that would be very expensive. I'm only asking after reading info on the Atomic website. They suggest H beam rods and imply that the stock rods are not the best.

I could use some press retension gudgen pins with spirolocks in the pistons to locate the rod.....but I reckon that would be a great way to hammer out the locks with 0.054" endfloat. I have build more than enough engines to have a clear understanding of mechanical limitations.

While I'm not familiar with Nascar engines, I do realise that things are very different in an engine you don't expect to last longer than the next race. They also do things to an engine that runs constant high RPM (like very narrow rings and wide bearing clearances) that you simply wouldn't get away with on the street. I'm building a tough engine, but I want it to last too.

Sorry if I'm ranting but telling me to think about things sounded like a dig to me. :? I never stop bloody thinking! :lol:

Chris
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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:23 pm 
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i wasn't having a dig at you.

all i'm saying is the stock forged TRW rods from an EF are damn strong.
JMM have made over 400rwkw using preped EF rods.

the only reason i said anything about using a narrow big and the small for rod location was because, if you are building an engine past what the stock rods can hadle, it wouldn't be your every day engine. It would be something out of the ordinary. that you wouldn't expect to get a very long life out of anyway.

and atomic are right the stock BA BF long rod is not overly stronge.

again i'm not having a go at you, but if you've built that many engines you would know, that to have a tough engine that will hold together you need to spend the money on parts.
All i have done is give options, sure some may bring about there own problems that need solving but they are option none the less

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:46 pm 
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:lol: ...No problem. :D

So BA rods are less durable than EF rods. Good to know! I'm really trying to get a handle on what bits are worth using in the E series I6. I'm an old Clevo man from way back. I'm used to engines that don't have good rods from the factory...or rods at all! :lol: Yes some engines don't have conrods.

Are the AU rods ok too? My $300 low kilometer AU engine arrived on Tuedsay. Looks good and will be the platform on which I hope to put together a reasonable turbo engine. I don't mind spending money where necessary, but hate spending it needlessly.

Sorry if I'm post whoring.

Chris
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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:26 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
stock forged TRW rods from an EF

forged, arent they cast??

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:32 pm 
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you're not post whoreing.

I'm sorry to say though, that all of the long rod engines AU included are marginal when it comes to rods. the change froma 5.88inch rod to a 6inch rod, only changes the stroke/rod ratio from 1.504 to 1.535.
you would need a 6.7inch rod to get a ratio of 1.714

the AU engine is a good starting point though with cross bolted mains and a factory main girdle. though the move to larger main bearings was an interesting one.

you said you where looking at the atomic stuff and thats a good way to be heading, brad from atomic is a very helpful man and will spend some time to listen to what you want.
he was even going to put in a special order for a semi custom piston (a flat top version of the turbo piston) for me, with one of his turbo piston orders


BTW sorry if it seems like we got off on the wrong foot

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:33 pm 
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ebs_4l wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
stock forged TRW rods from an EF

forged, arent they cast??



the rods? nope they are forged

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:58 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
BTW sorry if it seems like we got off on the wrong foot


:wink: No problem. Its always hard to get the intended meaning on a forum. I'm actually enjoying reading all the info on here. Very informative! Starting to wish I'd just done up my EF engine rather than going and buying an AU engine. Oh well...only wasted $300.

Chris
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:49 am 
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chris1966 wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
BTW sorry if it seems like we got off on the wrong foot


:wink: No problem. Its always hard to get the intended meaning on a forum. I'm actually enjoying reading all the info on here. Very informative! Starting to wish I'd just done up my EF engine rather than going and buying an AU engine. Oh well...only wasted $300.

Chris



well although it may seem strange to some people the EF rods will fit in the AU block. polish the beams and have them nitrided, get the bolt bores machined for the next closest ARP bolt and you have a very tough set of rods.
Or like you said, Atomic.

Do you want to use a forged piston? as currently no one makes one for the short rod, ACL race pistons (cast) can have the dish opened out lightly or modify the chamber to bring compression back down.

 

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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:55 am 
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Very interesting options.

I'm still leaning toward the Atomic rods with either Atomic or ACL forged pistons for the AU motor. It will be the "good" engine and with the bottom end improvements you spoke of previously, it should take a bit more punishment. That was the reason I bought it.

The EF engine will go together in the interum and I'll see how much I can screw out of it with my TO4b. Once it gets tired (or goes pop) I'll put the AU engine in and try and go faster with my TO4e66 or maybe even shout it a GT35r. Like you have pointed out, a reasonable turbo engine can be built from stock components from the EF....with exception of maybe the rod bolts which will be changed. The ACL hypereutectics will do fine for this engine. I have no idea what power output to expect but the turbo is in its fattest efficiency range at 15 to 18psi. That is the boost range I plan to run. Judging by the compressor map it should be quite a good turbo. I could calculate HP from the airflow but without accurate VE or intake temps I'm still only guessing. Far too many variables.

Anyhow, thanks again for your assistance. I'm starting to get very interested in this project. My poor turbo RX-7 is sitting in the shed as I'm too engrossed in this. :lol:

Chris
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:23 am 
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Good luck with it, you'll be suprised what you can get from the stock motor with some decent tuning and time.
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