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| JoeXR6 |
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Age: 43 Posts: 387 Joined: 30th Nov 2007 Ride: AU111 XR6 VCT Supercharged Location: Brisbane |
Hi All,
What are the pros and cons of stainless vs aluminium for intercooler piping? I'm at the stage of setting mine up. My thoughts would be aluminium pros are lighter weight, and would dissipate heat more quickly (eg. cool down more quickly). Negatives are that it would heat up more quickly as well. Stainless I'd think would be heavier, slower to take on heat (reflect heat better), but slower to release it as well. Would there be any benefit in running one material pre intercooler, and another post intercooler? Joe
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| schnoods |
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Weight is another, so is Price.
Aluminium is generally the way to go, Stainless is no probs however, but generally is cheaper and easier. Though very light guage stainless with a mirror like polish looks the goods too.
_________________ Because of Beer, Thirst is a Beautiful Thing! |
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| JoeXR6 |
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Age: 43 Posts: 387 Joined: 30th Nov 2007 Ride: AU111 XR6 VCT Supercharged Location: Brisbane |
Cheers Schnoods.
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| EFFalcon |
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Aluminium is harder to weld which is another thing to consider.
less joiners the better.
_________________ FALCN6 - EF GLi Turbo, 20" Rims, Air Bag Suspension, Straight LPG, 225rwkw |
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| JoeXR6 |
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Age: 43 Posts: 387 Joined: 30th Nov 2007 Ride: AU111 XR6 VCT Supercharged Location: Brisbane |
EFFalcon wrote: Aluminium is harder to weld which is another thing to consider. less joiners the better. I'm thinking of using stainless for that reason. A friend has a tig and some cheap stainless, so may have a go myself. It's 1.6mm wall thickness. I would use aluminum though if it was significantly better. EFFalcon, when you say less joiners the better, are you referring to a more welded pipework meaning less possible points for boost to leak (through joiners)?
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| low_ryda |
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you tig ally pipe aswell it just depends on the machines capabilities. namely if can run ac~high frequency. much of a mucness i think, on mine with cai, on the move the air flow through the pipe keeps it nice n cold with 3' x 1.6 wall 316 staino. so to me it's a moot point. although ally would have to be thicker to retain the strength so the weight arguement in sturctual items is almost cancelled out. also ally is prone to crack more often.
_________________ Not to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol is a solution. |
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| xcabbi |
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After getting a just jap intercooler kit with alluminium pipes for my brother I'd shy away from the stuff. I could deform all of the pipe work with just a moderate hand grip. Imagine the swelling that some decent boost would cause.
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| EFFalcon |
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JoeXR6 wrote: EFFalcon, when you say less joiners the better, are you referring to a more welded pipework meaning less possible points for boost to leak (through joiners)? the less silicone joins the less potential for leaks or pipes popping off. nothing worse then blowing a cooler pipe off somewhere up behind the front bar that you can't get to without pulling the bar off.
_________________ FALCN6 - EF GLi Turbo, 20" Rims, Air Bag Suspension, Straight LPG, 225rwkw |
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| JoeXR6 |
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Age: 43 Posts: 387 Joined: 30th Nov 2007 Ride: AU111 XR6 VCT Supercharged Location: Brisbane |
low_ryda wrote: you tig ally pipe aswell it just depends on the machines capabilities. namely if can run ac~high frequency. much of a mucness i think, on mine with cai, on the move the air flow through the pipe keeps it nice n cold with 3' x 1.6 wall 316 staino. so to me it's a moot point. although ally would have to be thicker to retain the strength so the weight arguement in sturctual items is almost cancelled out. also ally is prone to crack more often. Thanks for that info. The tig I can borrow only does stainless, which I can access cheaply, so I'll go with this. Think its 304? 1.6 wall.... xcabbi wrote: After getting a just jap intercooler kit with alluminium pipes for my brother I'd shy away from the stuff. I could deform all of the pipe work with just a moderate hand grip. Imagine the swelling that some decent boost would cause. Thats good to know. Your findings confirm lowryda's comments about the need for thicker ally. EFFalcon wrote: JoeXR6 wrote: EFFalcon, when you say less joiners the better, are you referring to a more welded pipework meaning less possible points for boost to leak (through joiners)? the less silicone joins the less potential for leaks or pipes popping off. nothing worse then blowing a cooler pipe off somewhere up behind the front bar that you can't get to without pulling the bar off. Cool. All my pipework is in the engine bay as my setup is water/air, but I'm keen to minimise variables like boost leak where possible. I'll have a crack at tigging this stainless up myself and see how I go. Does anyone know where I can buy 90 or 180 degree stainless bends at a fair price in Brisbane? I've rung a few places with big price differences. I plan to work out the bends I need, and purchase enough 90's or 180's so that I can then cut them up to achieve the desired pipework angles. Joe
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| xcabbi |
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Don't know about suppliers in Brissy. Could always try blackwoods if you like getting reamed.
But one thing to note when TIG welding thinwall pipe, you have to purge it. By that I mean that you have to pump some of the shielding gas into the pipe otherwise you'll get chunky weld beads on the inside of your pipes. Purging makes the weld dead flat on the inside. |
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| JoeXR6 |
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Age: 43 Posts: 387 Joined: 30th Nov 2007 Ride: AU111 XR6 VCT Supercharged Location: Brisbane |
xcabbi, what's the process for pumping the shielding gas into the pipe? I hadn't heard of this....thought I could just cut bends to size and weld them around the outside...didn't think the internal penetration beads would be a significant problem!
_________________ FOR SALE! - Supercharged AUIII XR6 VCT, intercooled, T5, big brakes.... details in the 'For Sale' section - ford-parts-for-sale-f17/fs-supercharged-au-xr6-vct-series-iii-intercooled-rwc-rego-t114254.html |
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| xcabbi |
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| low_ryda |
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thats not a bad article xcabbi although it's pretty commercially biased. i've seen plenty of guys quickly fuse staino tube with no purge and no filler and get zero penetration. and while it's poor practice i've never seen any shear in hard service. and while yes there is boost present withing your pipework, the cost of having 'perfect joints' would start to become comparable to the entire car...
it's common commercial practice to use masking tape but as it says comtains halogens which in turn decrease the efficiency of the welded joint... their referring to pipes that would sometimes be at well over 20psi at rest (not running) for its full service life, your pipework woud be lucky to hit 20psi intermittantly. purging is good and i do suggest it but don't think it's for perfect flow, you will still get a bead on the inside with purging, it just won't look like a hairy 4sshole inside the pipe and remain corrosion resistant.
_________________ Not to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol is a solution. |
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| JoeXR6 |
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Age: 43 Posts: 387 Joined: 30th Nov 2007 Ride: AU111 XR6 VCT Supercharged Location: Brisbane |
xcabbi thanks for that article. Informative. I've come across a local fellow who will purge weld my stainless if I have tacked the pipework together, at a good price, so this is now an option.
As per lowryda's comments, is there anything wrong with just fusing the stainless pipe....ie. will this technique be strong enough for intercooler pipework (10psi), or is it likely to crack and shear over time? Joe
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| low_ryda |
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depends on it's positioning & restraints. if it's under little stress i would like to say it would be ok but from a boilermakers point of view i consider fusing inadequate so i can't guarantee it.
it's the design of the pipework thats important when your plumbing, specially with coolers because your going from the engine bay to outside the car, you have to consider torque twist, which is something the l6 is renouned for, and fulcrums, which are amplified by the length of the pipework. the best welded pipe installed incorrectly will still sheer over time due to poor fatigue resistance. if you can tack it up yourself and do dummy fits n trials etc then getting someone to purge it would probably be the best option for you. if you tack it and duct tape it you can drive it. and you deffinately know that if you break tacks, it's under stress, also look for rub marks along the length and use flexible joiners, the less the better but you still need them, try to flare the pipes that are to be joined to help the joiners stay on & if flaring is available get a bellmouth made to while your at it.
_________________ Not to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol is a solution. |
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