Fordmods Logo

Stock Timing Maps 

 

Page 1 of 4 [ 47 posts ] Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

 
 Post subject: Stock Timing Maps
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:37 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 4307

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: EF Falcon XT-T

Location: Mornington Peninsula
VIC, Australia

just how aggresive would the stock timing maps be on an EF.
My cars on striaght LPG so the fueling side of a turbo setup is taken care of, but the timing cannot be alted at all.

so with the EF timing as is, how would it go with an intercooled turbo setup with maybe 8psi into it.

 

_________________

FALCN6 - EF GLi Turbo, 20" Rims, Air Bag Suspension, Straight LPG, 225rwkw
DTHWGN - EA GL Wagon, LTD Interior, Satin Black, 5.0, Turbo
RACER - EF Futura , 5.0, 5 Speed
PROJECT - 83 Thunderbird, Lowered, 18" Billet Wheels
DAILY - BA Fairmont Ghia 5.4 3V

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:06 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 607

Joined: 11th Nov 2004

Gallery: 8 images

Ride: XR6

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

this is off topic sorry but the pic on your post, are those wheels photoshoped on to your car, if not what are they called it looks awsome

 

_________________

BA XR8 BOSS 260
Winter White
18' gt-p wheels
Flash Tuned
2 jl 13.5' w3's
tv indash

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:27 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 4307

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: EF Falcon XT-T

Location: Mornington Peninsula
VIC, Australia

yes photoshopped... dream rims :)

 

_________________

FALCN6 - EF GLi Turbo, 20" Rims, Air Bag Suspension, Straight LPG, 225rwkw
DTHWGN - EA GL Wagon, LTD Interior, Satin Black, 5.0, Turbo
RACER - EF Futura , 5.0, 5 Speed
PROJECT - 83 Thunderbird, Lowered, 18" Billet Wheels
DAILY - BA Fairmont Ghia 5.4 3V

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:46 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

http://fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=40
read the third page (and a bit of the second) of the thread "gas turbo". I was asking the same question. Turns out that Rymers with his supercharger is running GRA and EF coil packs.
It's probably not as much information as you want, but it's a start, and he mi9ght be someone to talk to...

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:55 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 4307

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: EF Falcon XT-T

Location: Mornington Peninsula
VIC, Australia

Yeah, me and Rmyers are good friends :P
and while i know his car runs on coil packs, i also know he has water injection and a supercharger, a turbo will produce a hotter intake temp so more risk of detenation.

We help each other with our cars, should be interesting to see who's is faster;)

turbo'd 4.0 or supercharged 4.0

 

_________________

FALCN6 - EF GLi Turbo, 20" Rims, Air Bag Suspension, Straight LPG, 225rwkw
DTHWGN - EA GL Wagon, LTD Interior, Satin Black, 5.0, Turbo
RACER - EF Futura , 5.0, 5 Speed
PROJECT - 83 Thunderbird, Lowered, 18" Billet Wheels
DAILY - BA Fairmont Ghia 5.4 3V

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:04 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 36

Posts: 8655

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 37 images

Ride: V8 EF Futura

Location: Adelaide CBD
SA, Australia

EFFalcon wrote:
We help each other with our cars, should be interesting to see who's is faster;)

turbo'd 4.0 or supercharged 4.0


Keep it friendly, lads :wink:

Regarding ignition timing, if you're considering running a stock timing map then i encourage you to abandon the idea - pronto. I would suggest a rmyers do similar...

Look at the effective compression ratio (without considering altitude)

Final compression ratio = [(Boost in PSI/14.7) + 1] x stock compression ratio.

Insert rough figures... 9:1 stock ratio, 8psi boost.

FCR = [(8/14.7) + 1] x 9.0 = 13.9.

Now imagine decking your block to achieve a 14:1 compression ratio and running standard timing - you'd probably need near 120 octane... Forced induction would be a hotter charge which will increase the risk of detonation... recipe for melted pistons...

 

_________________

I promise..... I will never die.

Fordmods Administration Group MINOR PUNKED

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:23 pm 
ACT Cruise Moderator
Offline
User avatar

Age: 36

Posts: 6275

Joined: 24th Nov 2004

Ride: '06 BF GT-P

Power: 293 rwkw

Location: Canberra
ACT, Australia

simple answer, go and shave 10mms of the top of each piston, nice low comp :P

@ EF, If you're keeping it at 8 pound, and intercooled, I don't see why it won't work when using 98RON fuel. There's been a few guys at teh sydney Dyno's running similar setups, and getting good safe results.

But of course the problem is KEEPING it at 8psi, once you get used to it, you'll want more.

 

_________________

1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, 302W, stereo, slow - 97.5rwkw
2006 BF GT-P in Ego, mods. 293rwkw - 12.427@109 - 0-1000m 24.838@221

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:48 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 36

Posts: 8655

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 37 images

Ride: V8 EF Futura

Location: Adelaide CBD
SA, Australia

data_mine wrote:
@ EF, If you're keeping it at 8 pound, and intercooled, I don't see why it won't work when using 98RON fuel. There's been a few guys at teh sydney Dyno's running similar setups, and getting good safe results.



Precisely.. this is why you need to strip the timing out at high load points. My comment referred to running a standard ignition curve at that kind of compression....

 

_________________

I promise..... I will never die.

Fordmods Administration Group MINOR PUNKED

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:10 pm 
ACT Cruise Moderator
Offline
User avatar

Age: 36

Posts: 6275

Joined: 24th Nov 2004

Ride: '06 BF GT-P

Power: 293 rwkw

Location: Canberra
ACT, Australia

If it wasn't clear, they were pulling about 8pound peak boost. So only pulling about 200RWKW, out of the sixes.

And time to clean your car. Covered in mud is no good, unless you're an african elephant. :D

 

_________________

1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, 302W, stereo, slow - 97.5rwkw
2006 BF GT-P in Ego, mods. 293rwkw - 12.427@109 - 0-1000m 24.838@221

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:18 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 244

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Ride: EA falcon

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

4.9 EF Futura wrote:
EFFalcon wrote:
We help each other with our cars, should be interesting to see who's is faster;)

turbo'd 4.0 or supercharged 4.0


Keep it friendly, lads :wink:

Regarding ignition timing, if you're considering running a stock timing map then i encourage you to abandon the idea - pronto. I would suggest a rmyers do similar...

Look at the effective compression ratio (without considering altitude)

Final compression ratio = [(Boost in PSI/14.7) + 1] x stock compression ratio.

Insert rough figures... 9:1 stock ratio, 8psi boost.

FCR = [(8/14.7) + 1] x 9.0 = 13.9.

Now imagine decking your block to achieve a 14:1 compression ratio and running standard timing - you'd probably need near 120 octane... Forced induction would be a hotter charge which will increase the risk of detonation... recipe for melted pistons...


Meh, i've decked my head down to the valves and had no signs of detonation so far. High octane fuel (ie gas) + coooler + water injection + blower with cool charge = no worries :) Johns cam has a 110degree overlap anyway so would this help lower the compression ratio aswell??? The knock sensor will also help a bit to retard the timing aswell wouldn;t it???
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:38 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 37

Posts: 575

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: EF

Location: Wodonga
VIC, Australia

I've tried to run boost on my EF with the standard computer. It just didnt work. I'm not to sure if Gas will be better or worse then petrol, but fueling wasn’t a problem with my setup. I found that it would run fine first thing in the morning, but as soon as the car started to warm up on came the detonation, and let me tell you it came on strong, was one of the more horrific noises I’ve heard from my car.. I was only running between 6-8 PSI, and found that I needed to retard the timing for the car to be even close to reliable (aftermarket ECU). I have heard of people making up adjustable crank angle senor brackets.. This might work, but a new ECU will be the best way to go… I found that the knock sensor couldn’t adjust the timing enough to stop detonation. The other thing you could try is to put a EL computer, loom and distributor in, that would solve your problems also..

Good luck..
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:49 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 36

Posts: 8655

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 37 images

Ride: V8 EF Futura

Location: Adelaide CBD
SA, Australia

tjb45 wrote:
The other thing you could try is to put a EL computer, loom and distributor in, that would solve your problems also..



Agreed. But really, you dont want to take too much advance from low load points as it'll be a bit of a dog to putter around. Factory-like advance down low is good as it'll drive like stock if you lay off the loud pedal...

 

_________________

I promise..... I will never die.

Fordmods Administration Group MINOR PUNKED

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:53 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 37

Posts: 575

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: EF

Location: Wodonga
VIC, Australia

True, but I know a number of people with ED and EL, turbo setups running 10-12 PSI with stock engine management, and just a little amount of retarting. And their cars are only just a bit slower then mine, with aftermarket ECU, larger injectors, and $2000 wasted on tuning...

If you look at the big picture, you will always be better/safer of running an aftermaket ecu that can be tuned correctly over all the load/RPM bands.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:09 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 36

Posts: 8655

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 37 images

Ride: V8 EF Futura

Location: Adelaide CBD
SA, Australia

I see your point. I cant help but feel... these im not up to speed on john's setup rmyers has a fantastic looking setup... looks like a lot of time, a lot of effort and a lot of money... seems wrong to stinge out on tuning.

Sorry to be crude but as my mechanic puts it: "Dont f**k around"

 

_________________

I promise..... I will never die.

Fordmods Administration Group MINOR PUNKED

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:43 pm 
ACT Cruise Moderator
Offline
User avatar

Age: 36

Posts: 6275

Joined: 24th Nov 2004

Ride: '06 BF GT-P

Power: 293 rwkw

Location: Canberra
ACT, Australia

tjb45 wrote:
retarting.


Where are the hookers kept under the bonnet? :?

(I know you meant to write "retarding")

 

_________________

1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, 302W, stereo, slow - 97.5rwkw
2006 BF GT-P in Ego, mods. 293rwkw - 12.427@109 - 0-1000m 24.838@221

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 4  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:27 pm All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names