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| wadesta_1986 |
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EFFalcon wrote: its all about efficiency, getting the car to USE the air being red into it.
put 25psi into a stock engine, and 12psi into a stock engine, there won't be much of a gain coz the engine just can't use it. So why put 25psi in? |
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| EFFalcon |
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exactly.
there is no point. how ever build an engine that can take advantage of that and you do have a point 
_________________ FALCN6 - EF GLi Turbo, 20" Rims, Air Bag Suspension, Straight LPG, 225rwkw |
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
EFFalcon wrote: its all about efficiency, getting the car to USE the air being red into it.
put 25psi into a stock engine, and 12psi into a stock engine, there won't be much of a gain coz the engine just can't use it. because you are only putting it into the intake manifold. how much of that air that gets to the cylinders is what counts. the turbo used makes a difference too. there is no point running 25psi to make 400hp when the same turbo made 400hp on 15psi. go to a different turbo with a higher rating and the you will get good gains from the extra boost. until again you go past the turbos efficincy and then any extra boost will but pointless and infact be worse from teh extra heat |
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| wadesta_1986 |
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EFFalcon wrote: exactly.
there is no point. how ever build an engine that can take advantage of that and you do have a point Yes, I agree there. BUT, this thread was directed more to those who are talking of power gains thru more boost and those who sit away and ask how much boost a stock engine can take without considering how much more power can be gained off the stock internals on a good, reasonable boost setup. Like I was Told, Its not allways about how much boost your running but how you are running it! |
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
wadesta_1986 wrote: But dosent more boost make for a higher compression ratio? Thus putting more and more strain on internals? I know that If I could run 14psi and get the same results as another running 25psi, I would definately be going the 14psi.
the same power means they have the same in cylinder pressure regardless of boost. boost is Manifold pressure |
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| wadesta_1986 |
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tickford_6 wrote: wadesta_1986 wrote: But dosent more boost make for a higher compression ratio? Thus putting more and more strain on internals? I know that If I could run 14psi and get the same results as another running 25psi, I would definately be going the 14psi. the same power means they have the same in cylinder pressure regardless of boost. boost is Manifold pressure If it detonates from to much compression then yes! |
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
wadesta_1986 wrote: tickford_6 wrote: wadesta_1986 wrote: But dosent more boost make for a higher compression ratio? Thus putting more and more strain on internals? I know that If I could run 14psi and get the same results as another running 25psi, I would definately be going the 14psi. the same power means they have the same in cylinder pressure regardless of boost. boost is Manifold pressure If it detonates from to much compression then yes! thats not a compression thing. thats a tunning thing. but read it again. the same power means they have the same in cylinder pressure regardless of boost. that means the pressures inside the engine are the same. (no more compression) boost is Manifold pressure yes cylinder pressure is related to manifold pressure but they are not the same |
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| wadesta_1986 |
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So what you are saying is that If I was to run 25psi of boost, for an example, and 4 psi went into every cylinder (Rember, Example) and then I went and ran 16psi on that same engine, it would also have a cylinder pressure of 4psi?
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
wadesta_1986 wrote: So what you are saying is that If I was to run 25psi of boost, for an example, and 4 psi went into every cylinder (Rember, Example) and then I went and ran 16psi on that same engine, it would also have a cylinder pressure of 4psi?
only if like you were saying befor (Rember, Example) the engines had the SAME power output. but in reality the extra boost will make more power. provided you dont go past teh efficiency range of the turbo. no point upping the boost on a 400hp engine if the turbo will only suport 400hp. put a 600hp turbo on there and the extra boost will make more power. |
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| wadesta_1986 |
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tickford_6 wrote: wadesta_1986 wrote: So what you are saying is that If I was to run 25psi of boost, for an example, and 4 psi went into every cylinder (Rember, Example) and then I went and ran 16psi on that same engine, it would also have a cylinder pressure of 4psi? only if like you were saying befor (Rember, Example) the engines had the SAME power output. but in reality the extra boost will make more power. provided you dont go past teh efficiency range of the turbo. no point upping the boost on a 400hp engine if the turbo will only suport 400hp. put a 600hp turbo on there and the extra boost will make more power. I think I will stick it out with stock internals, run mid range boost (14-15psi) and take this blokes advice and cool everything down and then see what I can do. If this guy can get away without running masses amounts of boost and still get killer times, then there is no reason why others cant also! |
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| tjb45 |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the boost you see is a result of a restriction, in most cases the engine. So if you had one setup that was running 10psi on a standard engine, then bolted on a ported head with bigger valves your boost would drop as the restriction is less, and allow more air to make it into the engine before the valve shut.
Case in point, my car was making 220KW on 15psi, port work and bigger valves and it now make 260kw easy on 10psi. It is really air flow that is important. with both setups I might of been pumping the same amount of air, but with the first setup the valves were smaller and ports smaller so not as much could get in. Just my theory. |
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| wadesta_1986 |
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tjb45 wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the boost you see is a result of a restriction, in most cases the engine. So if you had one setup that was running 10psi on a standard engine, then bolted on a ported head with bigger valves your boost would drop as the restriction is less, and allow more air to make it into the engine before the valve shut.
Case in point, my car was making 220KW on 15psi, port work and bigger valves and it now make 260kw easy on 10psi. It is really air flow that is important. with both setups I might of been pumping the same amount of air, but with the first setup the valves were smaller and ports smaller so not as much could get in. Just my theory. Sounds logical to me! |
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
wadesta_1986 wrote: tickford_6 wrote: wadesta_1986 wrote: So what you are saying is that If I was to run 25psi of boost, for an example, and 4 psi went into every cylinder (Rember, Example) and then I went and ran 16psi on that same engine, it would also have a cylinder pressure of 4psi? only if like you were saying befor (Rember, Example) the engines had the SAME power output. but in reality the extra boost will make more power. provided you dont go past teh efficiency range of the turbo. no point upping the boost on a 400hp engine if the turbo will only suport 400hp. put a 600hp turbo on there and the extra boost will make more power. I think I will stick it out with stock internals, run mid range boost (14-15psi) and take this blokes advice and cool everything down and then see what I can do. If this guy can get away without running masses amounts of boost and still get killer times, then there is no reason why others cant also! you are really missing my point here dude. i'm not telling you that you should run big boost. i'm saying you need to make good use of what boost you do run. hence the story about the engine we put together for my bosses car. spend money. dont go out and buy a an intercooler because it's cheap and works ok. spend a bit extra buy one that works WELL. get the right turbo for what you want. do get one because some other guy said it's good on his engine. use a well ported head and you will make more power on the same boost as then you would with a stock head get a cam ground for the setup that you are using. spend more then $400 on dyno time. a bad tune will hurt power(and the engine) and cost you on feul consumption attention to detail is what makes 'low risk' power. there is no such thing as reliable power if you build a low boost setup properly and a high boost setup properly the high boost one will always make power. |
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
tjb45 wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the boost you see is a result of a restriction, in most cases the engine. So if you had one setup that was running 10psi on a standard engine, then bolted on a ported head with bigger valves your boost would drop as the restriction is less, and allow more air to make it into the engine before the valve shut.
Case in point, my car was making 220KW on 15psi, port work and bigger valves and it now make 260kw easy on 10psi. It is really air flow that is important. with both setups I might of been pumping the same amount of air, but with the first setup the valves were smaller and ports smaller so not as much could get in. Just my theory. the boost will be that same unless you set the wastegate to a lower boost. in the case of the head you would make more power on the same boost |
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| wadesta_1986 |
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tickford_6 wrote: wadesta_1986 wrote: tickford_6 wrote: wadesta_1986 wrote: So what you are saying is that If I was to run 25psi of boost, for an example, and 4 psi went into every cylinder (Rember, Example) and then I went and ran 16psi on that same engine, it would also have a cylinder pressure of 4psi? only if like you were saying befor (Rember, Example) the engines had the SAME power output. but in reality the extra boost will make more power. provided you dont go past teh efficiency range of the turbo. no point upping the boost on a 400hp engine if the turbo will only suport 400hp. put a 600hp turbo on there and the extra boost will make more power. I think I will stick it out with stock internals, run mid range boost (14-15psi) and take this blokes advice and cool everything down and then see what I can do. If this guy can get away without running masses amounts of boost and still get killer times, then there is no reason why others cant also! you are really missing my point here dude. i'm not telling you that you should run big boost. i'm saying you need to make good use of what boost you do run. hence the story about the engine we put together for my bosses car. spend money. dont go out and buy a an intercooler because it's cheap and works ok. spend a bit extra buy one that works WELL. get the right turbo for what you want. do get one because some other guy said it's good on his engine. use a well ported head and you will make more power on the same boost as then you would with a stock head get a cam ground for the setup that you are using. spend more then $400 on dyno time. a bad tune will hurt power(and the engine) and cost you on feul consumption attention to detail is what makes 'low risk' power. there is no such thing as reliable power if you build a low boost setup properly and a high boost setup properly the high boost one will always make power. Firstly his engine was supercharged Secondly, I started this thread to show how boost could be used better rather than the need to run more of it! I would rather spend the money on getting certain things engineered up to keep the IAT as cool as I can! The setup I plan on is quite capable of running the power that I am chasing! And thirdly, The kit comes with an intercooler! 
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