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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:25 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
the boost will be that same unless you set the wastegate to a lower boost.
in the case of the head you would make more power on the same boost


I understand that, I was just trying to make the point, that boost is only a reference of a restricted air flow. Some people are under the opinion that because they run 20psi into an engine, that it'll produce more power then the same engine with port work/larger valves running only 15psi..

wadesta, your right, having the coldest intake temp possible makes a huge different, you only have to drive a turbo car on a cold morning to notice how much more power they have.
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:27 pm 
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tjb45 wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
the boost will be that same unless you set the wastegate to a lower boost.
in the case of the head you would make more power on the same boost


I understand that, I was just trying to make the point, that boost is only a reference of a restricted air flow. Some people are under the opinion that because they run 20psi into an engine, that it'll produce more power then the same engine with port work/larger valves running only 15psi..

wadesta, your right, having the coldest intake temp possible makes a huge different, you only have to drive a turbo car on a cold morning to notice how much more power they have.


I notice it in my N/A! Where I am, it can get as cold as 2 degrese which makes for fun driving!
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:27 pm 
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superchager/ turbo charged. as far as the engine is concerned boost is boost
doesn't matter where it comes from


i agree it better to use the boost more efficiantly. but there still comes a point when you need to use more of it.

Quote:
And thirdly, The kit comes with an intercooler!

this is what i mean by buying one that works well, not one that works ok.


you may see 12psi manifold pressure but put a boost gauge on the turbo side of the intercooler, cheap one (intercooler) can have over 7psi more on the turbo side.
this is not using boost efficiantly, extra heat is created, making the inlet temp higher aswell. a good intercooler should only have about 2psi difference. less inlet heat= more efficiant setup.


are you trying to tell us not to run more boost because you dont want as much power??

 

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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:30 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
superchager/ turbo charged. as far as the engine is concerned boost is boost
doesn't matter where it comes from


i agree it better to use the boost more efficiantly. but there still comes a point when you need to use more of it.

Quote:
And thirdly, The kit comes with an intercooler!

this is what i mean by buying one that works well, not one that works ok.


you may see 12psi manifold pressure but put a boost gauge on the turbo side of the intercooler, cheap one (intercooler) can have over 7psi more on the turbo side.
this is not using boost efficiantly, extra heat is created, making the inlet temp higher aswell. a good intercooler should only have about 2psi difference. less inlet heat= more efficiant setup.


are you trying to tell us not to run more boost because you dont want as much power??


No, I am saying that there is no need to run massive amounts of boost when there are other things that you could do to get the same sorta gains. Obviously, there will be a point in which you need to start upping the boost!
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:32 pm 
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tjb45 wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
the boost will be that same unless you set the wastegate to a lower boost.
in the case of the head you would make more power on the same boost


I understand that, I was just trying to make the point, that boost is only a reference of a restricted air flow. Some people are under the opinion that because they run 20psi into an engine, that it'll produce more power then the same engine with port work/larger valves running only 15psi..

wadesta, your right, having the coldest intake temp possible makes a huge different, you only have to drive a turbo car on a cold morning to notice how much more power they have.



pretty much what i already said
tickford_6 wrote:
the smart people realise that head flow is still important with boosted engines and will have the head ported to suit, use the right cam and manifolds, and achieve even more power with out turning up the boost.

case in point my bosses SR20 180SX stock engine with bolt ons made 250rwkw on 24psi,
then we striped it built it with good internals had the head ported got a good Gready intake, a 6boost external gate exhaust manifold and a set of cams that match the head flow and the intended use of the car. with a soft tune (read bugger all ignition timming and to mch feul) it made 280rwkw on 13psi and broke the output shaft 1 day befor we had a dyno booked so we could do so real tunning.


lets just say we now turn the boost back up to 24psi

 

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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:46 pm 
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Sorry tickford_6 I didn't want to steal your thunder, I didn't read your post earlier on. What do they say, great minds think alike.. :D
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Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 12:58 am 
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i see it the same as tickford_6

that supercharged el xr6 isnt make much power from wat i can see its got a extremly well setup suspention and getts of the line fast. it isnt a street car it a full drag car.

also it is using a sprintax super charger which wont produce alot of heat from the start compard with a turbo.

ive got some pics for use to have a look at!!

 

 

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Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 2:01 am 
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Looks like he has done alot of work since those pics were taken. I have some later ones but cbf posting them.

He is making mass power. His suspension and slicks run well together but he also maintains a good velocity which can be traced back to the fact that he has a Motec M800 running alot of it and the fact that he pumps alot of ice water around all of his intake setup. And as I said before, he has an awesome tune. to the point of tapping headphones into the knock sensor! It dosent get to much more extreme on a dyno!
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Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:09 am 
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Take a mild stock turbo engine with 8lb of boost and the owner wants more. He can

a) port the head, get new cam(s), play around with intercoolers/water injection setups. Put it back together, it will now make more power with same boost.

or

b) crank the boost up.

Either way your getting more air into the engine. With method 'a' your using what is there more efficiently and with 'b' your just pushing what you have harder.

oh and BTW - connecting the knock sensor to an amplifier and headphones is just an easy way to hear pinging. Computers have a lot of problems picking out knock from background noise but its easy for us. Its not that extreme, it just find the most timing at each bin, which isnt always where the most power is.

 

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Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 9:02 am 
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Where does he hide the throttle bodies??
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Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 9:58 am 
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I read about that thing, supposedly he doesn't use a traditional butterfly style TB.
Wouldn't say what he did use but, so I got NFI.

 

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Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 2:09 pm 
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The throttle is part of the supercharger. Its hidden underneath the thing. Apparently it reduces any lag that may surcome. Even the fact that it is a supercharger!

And from what he was saying about the knock sensor headphones, Apparently there are only 2 pairs of them in W.A. and that its not a common practice.
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Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:02 pm 
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wadesta_1986 wrote:
And from what he was saying about the knock sensor headphones, Apparently there are only 2 pairs of them in W.A. and that its not a common practice.


I know a lot of the MS2 guys use them for tuning. Its very simple to do yourself, anyone can make one for about $10. Its just about the only way to tune timing without a dyno.

From the MS2 forums:
Quote:
Without absurdly expensive test equipment ,
probably the best way to find your ideal timing is by using "regular" gas
and installing a Knock Sensor that is attached to a small amplifier that
powers a set of headphones that you wear while driving .
(be carefull this is illeagal in most States)
The headphones should be the type that seal around your ears ,
these are harder to find now but they are still availible , if you have
plenty of cash the "Bose" Noise Cancelling Headphones are the way to go.

When you get this setup working you should be able to hear almost
everything going on inside your engine , including Detonation or "Knock"
VERY obviously . It's much easier for your ears to tune out all the other
engine noises than it is to design an electronic filter that singles out the
sounds of detonation and then triggers another curcuit .

Keep advancing your entire Advance table by doing a Table Transform
and "shifting" your whole table up about 3 degrees at a time until you
get your engine to knock at Wide Open Throttle WFO ,
start at low rpm and work your way up ,
this is dangerous business for your engine ,
when you hear Detonation back off imeadiately and let your engine
recover for at least 15 or 20 seconds .
Take note of the rpm and kPa , (kPa should be close to 100)
back off the timing 2 degrees in that bin and try again until the engine
will not knock at that particular rpm and kPa bin ,
once you get all of your 100 kPa bins done you need to reduce every
100kPa bin by 3 to 5 degrees ,
now you can move down to the 90 and 80 kPa rows ,
below 80kPa you may not be able to get your engine to Knock ,
in that case you need to progressively add a total of appox. 60% of
the new timing figure at 100kPa , in that particular rpm column ,
to the 20kPa bin .

 

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Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:55 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
superchager/ turbo charged. as far as the engine is concerned boost is boost
doesn't matter where it comes from


When Wade pointed out it is supercharged, I think he was referring to the fact that the boost will drop when the capacity to flow is increased, but still pumping through the same amount of air, rather than it still being limited by the wastegate of the turbo.

In any occurance, as mentioned in other threads, the guy with the blown XR6 has spent a lot of time and $$$ on this car to get it to where it is today. It was his daily street driven car, not garaged most of the time but roadworthy, but his every day driver to & from work when it was doing 11s.

 

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Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 9:03 pm 
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Quote:
And from what he was saying about the knock sensor headphones, Apparently there are only 2 pairs of them in W.A. and that its not a common practice.


ive herd its a common thing that alot of tuners do.

 

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