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Stop Running Mass Boost!!! 

 

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 Post subject: Stop Running Mass Boost!!!
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 1:38 pm 
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I have been reading thru a couple of turbo posts and some guys seem to be pretty bent on how much boost to run! I spoke to a really smart guy at the drgas the other night about his supercharged EL XR6 and he was telling me not to be so bent up on boost.

He is running a stock engine (Apart from Cam and Stiffer valve springs) and he was saying that he is running 14psi of boost and he is running 10.35 down the quater. He told me, and I do quote "Dont worry about how much boost you are gonna run, just keep everything cold!" as we were talking to him, He put half a bag of ice into a container under the bonnet, and he was saying that it gets pumped around his intake manifold just after the burnout. It all makes perfect sense when you think about it logically. The cooler the air, the less chance of detonation, the more air that can be stuffed into the cylinder, thus leading to better times. He also said "Make sure you have the electronics, and the correct fuel delivery to cope with the amount of air going into the cylinders!" He has been running this setup for a year now and he is still on the first engine. Rember, this engine is pretty well stock!

Just a couple of things for some of you blokes to ponder on!
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 1:45 pm 
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I totally agree with keeping the intake charge cool and of course keeping the tune perfect (fuel deliver and spark timing). You're also right that doing this will get maximum (and ideal ratio) fuel/air into the cylinders. However remember that MORE boost will force EVEN MORE fuel/air into the cylinders. Its simple logic, more boost, more power. You just need to keep it all in perspective. And yes, some people only want to talk about how much fully sick BOOST bro :P

 

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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 1:49 pm 
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Waggin wrote:
And yes, some people only want to talk about how much fully sick BOOST bro :P


Thats exactly it Brad. As this guy was sayin, there is no need for massive amounts of boost. Alot of guys on here are talking about how much they can run on a stock motor. And then there are some that say they are hoping to crack 10's with 25psi+ There is no need for it. Spend some quality dollars on a good electronics setup and a good cooling setup. Do that and your a mile in front allready!
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 3:11 pm 
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Yep yep.. It kills me to hear people trying to get the most out of the stock ECU.

 

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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 3:59 pm 
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mm good point :)

the cooler the air the more dense the air and more fuel is needed = MORE power

mm power!

 

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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 4:02 pm 
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Are you getting ideas for the AU Frank?
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 4:34 pm 
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It all comes down to flow and efficiency if you use a small compressor you will need big boost to get the right airflow to make a certain amount of power which will heat the crap out of the air but if you use a large compressor you will have the same airflow at lower boost so the hole lot will not be heated as much therefore more power. A lot of younger people out there cant understand this .


cheers Mic
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 4:47 pm 
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also by cooling the ait you get less boost (colder the gas the less the pressure it exerts) whilst still getting the same amount of air into the cylinders as the car with higher boost at a higher temp, of course if a car is runnign higher boost at the same temp as the car with lower boost (all other things equal) the higher boost will make more power.
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:23 pm 
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wadesta_1986 wrote:
Are you getting ideas for the AU Frank?


i got many and idea and 1 is a twin seqentional setup :)

 

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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:27 pm 
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mic_77 wrote:
It all comes down to flow and efficiency if you use a small compressor you will need big boost to get the right airflow to make a certain amount of power which will heat the crap out of the air but if you use a large compressor you will have the same airflow at lower boost so the hole lot will not be heated as much therefore more power. A lot of younger people out there cant understand this .


cheers Mic


What I understand is that boost is read just at the exit of the turbo compressor. So it dosent matter the size, the boost will still be the same. It just means that if you run a smaller compressor, it will have to spool up faster and harder where as if you use a large compressor, it dosent have to spool up as much to produce the target boost.

This bloke I was speaking to was just saying that there is no need for large amounds of boost when you can get the same sort of power, on lower boost, without putting so much strain on the engines internals!
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 8:29 pm 
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hmmm i did see that ride wen i went to the drags! was crazy and definately gives ya afew ideas for installs...i got a clip of it doin an 11 sec run but wen i first got there it was doin low 10s! :shock:

http://media.putfile.com/11-sec-EL-XR6-supercharged

 

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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 9:38 pm 
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wadesta_1986 wrote:
mic_77 wrote:
It all comes down to flow and efficiency if you use a small compressor you will need big boost to get the right airflow to make a certain amount of power which will heat the crap out of the air but if you use a large compressor you will have the same airflow at lower boost so the hole lot will not be heated as much therefore more power. A lot of younger people out there cant understand this .


cheers Mic


What I understand is that boost is read just at the exit of the turbo compressor. So it dosent matter the size, the boost will still be the same. It just means that if you run a smaller compressor, it will have to spool up faster and harder where as if you use a large compressor, it dosent have to spool up as much to produce the target boost.

This bloke I was speaking to was just saying that there is no need for large amounds of boost when you can get the same sort of power, on lower boost, without putting so much strain on the engines internals!




putting 250kw on 14psi or 250kw on 18psi it's still 250kw your crank rods bearings block. they dont care how much boost you use to get it.
it's relivent to air flow. because regardless of the boost used you still need the same amount of air in the cylinder to achieve that power.

some people will just up the boost, some people will use less boost but a better suited cam profile to get the air in there..

the smart people realise that head flow is still important with boosted engines and will have the head ported to suit, use the right cam and manifolds, and achieve even more power with out turning up the boost.

case in point my bosses SR20 180SX stock engine with bolt ons made 250rwkw on 24psi,
then we striped it built it with good internals had the head ported got a good Gready intake, a 6boost external gate exhaust manifold and a set of cams that match the head flow and the intended use of the car. with a soft tune (read bugger all ignition timming and to mch feul) it made 280rwkw on 13psi and broke the output shaft 1 day befor we had a dyno booked so we could do so real tunning.


lets just say we now turn the boost back up to 24psi

 

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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:30 pm 
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But dosent more boost make for a higher compression ratio? Thus putting more and more strain on internals? I know that If I could run 14psi and get the same results as another running 25psi, I would definately be going the 14psi.
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:33 pm 
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cominthru wrote:
hmmm i did see that ride wen i went to the drags! was crazy and definately gives ya afew ideas for installs...i got a clip of it doin an 11 sec run but wen i first got there it was doin low 10s! :shock:

http://media.putfile.com/11-sec-EL-XR6-supercharged


Yea, I have seen him a couple of times doin 10.3 but never really went up and had a chat with him but the other night I did and he seemed like a bloody smart bloke! He gave me so much info and really pointed me in the right direction! He was actually saying that when he went and put it on the X-Speed dyno, the guy plugged a special set of headphones into the knock sensor so he could listen for detonation!
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:33 pm 
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its all about efficiency, getting the car to USE the air being red into it.
put 25psi into a stock engine, and 12psi into a stock engine, there won't be much of a gain coz the engine just can't use it.

 

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