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supercharging i6 

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:37 pm 
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schnoods wrote:
3.9from hell wrote:
a supercharger or any pump for that matter produces flow of whatever fluid media it is pumping, in this case air

flow can only be measured in volume ie litres per hour

at a given rpm the blower wil move a certain volume (litres) of air at a certain rate (per hour)

now, an engine producing a given hp at a given eficiency will use a certain volume of air over a given time frame
again measured in litres per hour

if the blower/turbo etc in question moves more volume of air per hour than the engine consumes then the air will back up in the inlet tract and become pressurised and form the condition we know as "boost"

now boost can be measured in a unit of pressure ie psi, kpa, bar etc

boost quite simply is a measurement of what percentage of the air suplied by the pump is consumed by the engine

in a way it is an indication of the restriction in the inlet AFTER the pump

therefore to have a manufacturer claim a "maximum psi" is at best misleading


The max psi would be a Safe Working Condition.

Being a non oiled system there would be a safe rev limit for the blower, mainly due to the gears in there, it basicall depends on what size blower drive pulley you have on there and what the motor driving it will rev out to.

I still wouldn't even try to get it near the revs required to make 17 psi on that blower, I'd be stepping up to a t trim Vortech or even a procharger..

It says in the specs 17psi, discharge outlet 75mm (3"), so if the specs are right it can flow 17psi at large volumes too. No point having 17 psi with a very small discharge if by the time it hits a larger chamber the pressure will dissapate.

I reckon it flow the 17 psi needed to supply the 4ltr, even more, just that with that sort of boost, i'd be looking at a serious blower that can take it with ease and previous results rather than an up and comer.


Could be right there schnoods, I did read on there somewhere that the raptor was rated at 850cfm max. I'll be looking at something that pumps 1100- 2000cfm max. they're more flexable to play with plus the air delivery is available at any given rpm.

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 pm 
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thats why i bought an S trim blower.

Max rpm compressor shaft is 50, 000 rpm, max boost is 15 psi (safe), oil feed and return lines for longevity and the whole lot is servicable.

Asking for 17 psi out of a centri blower, you will need a Gilmer drive and perhaps a turnbucled brace for the blower shaft, so it doesn't flog out.

I am running a 8 rib pulley for the blower for my lazy 8psi, but the Larger raptor only runs on 6 or 7 rib pulley, which will mean slippage.

And only for a couple of hundred $$$ more a vortech is in reach, with more interchangable parts and blowers..

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:07 pm 
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Yea, but some of the guys would just settle for the rated 9psi setup from the manufacturer. besides, asking for more boost can be costly on a stock standard engine with factory components in a short period of time.

if you're a serious racer with the money to play with, the go for it. but personally I'll go with ProCharger or a roots.

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:30 pm 
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So if noone tries these Raptor superchargers than noone can say what they can and cant do, the raptor v is very efficent alot of people here are under rating these centrifuge superchargers, tho getting 17psi out of the raptor v would be a stretch as it is rated at 57.000 rpm. You would want the raptor R.

I am very happy with my raptor and it is a very good bang for buck mod, if you want to be a sheep then yeah dont try these guys and dont do something different, dont compare until you have tried.

I am currently running 7 psi with a full exhaust system( single 2.5'') and i absolutly slaughtered a cv8 monaro manual, i thought hed get me till i could build enough boost i didnt even stall it up. When i spoke to the dude in the monaro he gave me the thumbs up and said it sounded great.


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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:53 pm 
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RAPTOR_XR8 wrote:
So if noone tries these Raptor superchargers than noone can say what they can and cant do, the raptor v is very efficent alot of people here are under rating these centrifuge superchargers, tho getting 17psi out of the raptor v would be a stretch as it is rated at 57.000 rpm. You would want the raptor R.

I am very happy with my raptor and it is a very good bang for buck mod, if you want to be a sheep then yeah dont try these guys and dont do something different, dont compare until you have tried.

I am currently running 7 psi with a full exhaust system( single 2.5'') and i absolutly slaughtered a cv8 monaro manual, i thought hed get me till i could build enough boost i didnt even stall it up. When i spoke to the dude in the monaro he gave me the thumbs up and said it sounded great.


Brad
Yeah Brad, its more then sufficient for us poor C***. those raptors is probably all you need for a stock engine without getting carried away.
if you are serious about extensive surgery & greedy with boost or just like tinkering, then by all means waste your life savings on something bigger.

Hey Brad, got a intercooler going? air density is up the s**t this time of the year! lol

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:09 pm 
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No intercooler yet , even in the heat she performs quit well.

Dont Know if i need anymore power theres just no place to use it and i feel its quik enough as is, i need to get it hooked up to a dyno to see what she makes, was hoping at crescent motorsports but havent had the time.

Yeah unless its intercooled and got a strong bottom end i doubt most pple need over 9 psi, i mean jeez the car should be good for 13's who needs faster than that, youd want alot better brakes too cause slowing down from a 200k run shows how s**t these brakes realy are.


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Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:24 am 
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Slick wrote:
Whats the max CFM of our 4.0L i6 at maximum rpm anyone?

Multiply 423 (at 6000rpm) by whatever percentage you like for volumetric efficiency at that point. So 70% VE would be 296cfm, 120% with a blower would be 508 cfm, still well within the envelope of a Raptor V.

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:51 am 
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sly wrote:
Slick wrote:
Whats the max CFM of our 4.0L i6 at maximum rpm anyone?

Multiply 423 (at 6000rpm) by whatever percentage you like for volumetric efficiency at that point. So 70% VE would be 296cfm, 120% with a blower would be 508 cfm, still well within the envelope of a Raptor V.
beautiful, I only asked because I just forgot the formula! lol

The RAPTOR is the best option for those who would like a decent trouble free setup because everything needed is in the package... has raptor ever thought of becoming a sponsor? :lol:

SLY, really appreciate for that reply, guys like you should really spent more time on here... cheers mate!!

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:33 am 
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Turbo or Supercharger ...they both have their pros and cons ...the best option is what suits YOU and what YOU want in / from your car.

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:56 am 
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markr154 wrote:
Turbo or Supercharger ...they both have their pros and cons ...the best option is what suits YOU and what YOU want in / from your car.


Agreed........
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Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:36 pm 
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definately turbo, cant "gate" people with a SC hahah
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Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:57 pm 
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Slick wrote:
The RAPTOR is the best option for those who would like a decent trouble free setup because everything needed is in the package... has raptor ever thought of becoming a sponsor? :lol:

Raptor sponsors a couple of Holden sites AFAIK. He's been doing kits for Commonwhores for a while, they seem to be highly regarded. I think Tim might be a bit of a Ford man though, he's bought an AU ute to develop the non-VCT kit and I think he's planning to mod it beyond the level of his customer kits.

The CAPA Powerdyne kit used to be "the best option for those who would like a decent trouble free setup because everything needed is in the package"... and was almost universally bagged. Looks like Raptor will steal that market niche, it will be interesting to see if CAPA come through with Vortech Sealed kits for the I6. Their V2-SQ kits for the Holdens are better priced than CAPA kits used to be.

But I'm still not sure if a centrifugal blower is really what I'm after. My autobox stalls right on 2000rpm and I spend most of my time between 2000 and 4000 rpm, probably most of that between 2000 and 3000. Most people I've spoken to say they don't notice any improvement over stock until 3000rpm with a centrifugal blower. I want something that will be a noticeable (not necessarily huge) improvement over stock from 2000 up.

So ATM I am trying to find someone locally with the time and expertise to put together a turbo install on a dual-fuel engine, while watching a couple of AFF sponsors who have hinted at bringing out positive displacement kits for the I6 this year. Meanwhile I know a bloke nearby who has his heart set on a Raptor and will fit one as soonas the non-VCT kit is available. As his car is the XR6HP which differs from both the VCT XR6 and Tim's std ute, he's going to make a road trip to Mackay to get it custom tuned. His tune will then go in the kit for HP engines. So anyway I'll go for a spin with him when the car's tuned and see whether it's for me or not.

Slick wrote:
SLY, really appreciate for that reply, guys like you should really spent more time on here... cheers mate!!

My Mrs reckons I spend far too much time already :lol: , but it's mostly on AFF. I didn't really find what I was looking for when I first joined here, but this thread has been very interesting. I might drop in a bit more often.

 

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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:43 pm 
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It would be handy with the 17psi setup I reckon. one solution is reduce the size of the blower to T/B pipe or fabricate the intake so they have a nice even rounded curve without the sharp bends. another is to overdrive the guts out of it with a blow off valve set at 9 or 10psi plus smaller primery extractors. I reckon that'll bring the boost down lower in the rpm range. combine the lot should see you whining of idle alot better. thats my opinion anyway.

 

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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:24 pm 
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RAPTOR_XR8 wrote:
No intercooler yet , even in the heat she performs quit well.

Dont Know if i need anymore power theres just no place to use it and i feel its quik enough as is, i need to get it hooked up to a dyno to see what she makes, was hoping at crescent motorsports but havent had the time.

Yeah unless its intercooled and got a strong bottom end i doubt most pple need over 9 psi, i mean jeez the car should be good for 13's who needs faster than that, youd want alot better brakes too cause slowing down from a 200k run shows how s**t these brakes realy are.


Brad

having a manual helps bigtime with braking but yep, larger front discs & calipers are needed. i reckon ill be happy with consistant low 10's. the first time i drove a 13 sec car (auto) it felt like a slingshot but you get used to it after a while you dont realise just how fast your going untill you need to stop, lol.

for the past few years ive wanted to steer away from centrifugal and go for a roots type compressor, they are a little more complex to get setup right but the advantages are more than worth it in my opinion. centrifugal suits short strokes better, a long stroke needs a supercharger. :)

 

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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:40 pm 
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Just posting as this is interesting and I wanna keep updated :) Real interesting read guys. I may yet boost my old girl if I get enthused (and financed) enough :)
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