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time for a revamp EB6T 

 

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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:17 pm 
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Ride: XW, EL, Territory, VFR800

Power: 129 rwkw

Location: Adelaide
SA, Australia

Mate! Where has this beast been on all the cruises in S.A.??!
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:26 am 
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instead of using two bosch 044 pumps which will draw heaps of current, why not use a MSD voltage booster. What I have done is that on cruise and low load the pump runs normal voltage, but on high demand the voltage booster is switched by the EMS via a relay to put around 16-17 volts to the pump. There is plenty of fuel there for 700hp with less noise and less hassle. Also you 72lb injectors should be OK for 400rwkw.

There is also one bigger bosch pump than the 044. its B261205413. It flows 200l/hr at 8bar whilst the 044 flows 200@5bar. But last time I checked they were around $800

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:00 am 
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turbotrana wrote:
There is plenty of fuel there for 700hp with less noise and less hassle. Also you 72lb injectors should be OK for 400rwkw.

have you actually measured the available fuel flow at say 62psi rail pressure??

as for my 72's being good for 400rwkw, the problem i have at the minute is i dont know exactly how much power i am making... i may be somewhere near 400 now? but i doubt it...

what i do know for sure is.. right now, my 72s are seeing 92% duty cycle.. which i am uncomfortable with. who here has seen the effects of running such massive duty cycle???? with the autronic, it gives you a graph of the injector open time over the 4 cycles. ive had to adjust my injector end angle a fair bit to stop the inlet charge getting hit with two injector events..... THIS WOULD NOT HAPPEN WITH BIGGER INJECTORS. which is why i want them, if you have an onboard a/f meter running on datalogger at 20 samples/sec you can see what happens to the mixture stability when this starts happening, mine starts going bad at 90% (note: you cannot see this happening from the tailpipe mounted a/f meter, it needs to be in the dump pipe)

ill try draw it for those who are wondering what on earth the problem with duty cycles over 85% is

Image
before someone points it out, i need to make a small correction here^^^^ the exhaust opening point in my diagram got moved when copy and pasting, its meant to be just to the left of the power/exhaust cycle marker

ok, by that, you see the issues, if you follow it along from say, compression, the injector is open all the way until into the start of the inlet by about 30-40deg depending on valve timing. what happens, the inlet opens, draws in all the charge mix sitting in the inlet tract... thats fine, however towards the end of the inlet event, you see the injector re-opens sometime before the inlet valve shuts... so you have a fresh fuel squirt entering in with the premixed lot.. 360 works out about the best compromise, i did start with 330, but that gives an even larger amount squirted in just before the inlet closes

ideally, most engines run best with ALL the injection squirted in BEFORE the valve even opens

hope someone can learn something from this brief lesson

cheers, brad

 

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EB 4L, 8.4:1, R154, GT4202r, 4in exhaust, Greenslade Engineering exhaust manifold, plenum chamber, 90mm throttle, Garrett W2A cooler, Surecam custom, autronic SM4, Bosch 120lb, Crane HI-6, LX-92, LM-1, Turbosmart Reg, 2x bosch 044, turbosmart 48 gate. 470kw+ @ 18PSI

Last edited by ebs_4l on Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:55 pm 
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ye I learnt something from that. We mostly talk about injector duty cycle and how much the injector will cope with till it does not function but the point you raised is very important also.

You work it out with these figures that I did with a measured container a few years back

52psi @ 15v 2.5-2.6L per 30 sec
76psi @15v 2.5L per 30 sec
94 psi @15v 2.4 L per 30 sec

On this test I only ran at 15volts. At 17volts about 6l per min. Do your calcs from here.
The thing with the bosch pump was that flow did not decrease that much with increased pressure

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:59 pm 
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I couldn't get much more than 13 to 13.5 volts at the pump without the booster. The booster will give a constant output voltage regardless of the input down to about 10volts.

 

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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:48 pm 
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slight improvement to my plans... they now include gt4294r and new split pulse exhaust manifold... my aim here is to lower the exhaust backpressure as much as possible

 

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EB 4L, 8.4:1, R154, GT4202r, 4in exhaust, Greenslade Engineering exhaust manifold, plenum chamber, 90mm throttle, Garrett W2A cooler, Surecam custom, autronic SM4, Bosch 120lb, Crane HI-6, LX-92, LM-1, Turbosmart Reg, 2x bosch 044, turbosmart 48 gate. 470kw+ @ 18PSI

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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:18 pm 
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Good stuff. It will interesting to see the difference in power and spool time.

Have you had you car on the dyno in its current state of tune? Sorry if its been mentioned and I missed it.
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:13 am 
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nah havent had a run recently... next problem is fitting at gt42 in the engine bay

 

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EB 4L, 8.4:1, R154, GT4202r, 4in exhaust, Greenslade Engineering exhaust manifold, plenum chamber, 90mm throttle, Garrett W2A cooler, Surecam custom, autronic SM4, Bosch 120lb, Crane HI-6, LX-92, LM-1, Turbosmart Reg, 2x bosch 044, turbosmart 48 gate. 470kw+ @ 18PSI

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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:40 pm 
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been a while since my last update... doesnt mean things havent progressed. Now I need to come up with a nice heat exchanger and pump system.. ive got some things in mind for this.. but i also want to incorporate a system for special occasions. eg, dyno comp

Image
Image

 

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EB 4L, 8.4:1, R154, GT4202r, 4in exhaust, Greenslade Engineering exhaust manifold, plenum chamber, 90mm throttle, Garrett W2A cooler, Surecam custom, autronic SM4, Bosch 120lb, Crane HI-6, LX-92, LM-1, Turbosmart Reg, 2x bosch 044, turbosmart 48 gate. 470kw+ @ 18PSI

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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:29 pm 
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Hey,

Looking pretty good there. Where did you get the core for the W2A??? Wouldnt mind making my own.

Cheers

8-) Daz 8-)

 

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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:29 pm 
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Ive got a garrett supplier in the U.S.. Ive settled on a turbo that i now want, a gt4202r 1.15 turbine 0.6 comp.. whether or not i can justify spending any more money on my car is a different story though

after ive got the w2a system under control, the plenum will be coming off for some reworking

 

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EB 4L, 8.4:1, R154, GT4202r, 4in exhaust, Greenslade Engineering exhaust manifold, plenum chamber, 90mm throttle, Garrett W2A cooler, Surecam custom, autronic SM4, Bosch 120lb, Crane HI-6, LX-92, LM-1, Turbosmart Reg, 2x bosch 044, turbosmart 48 gate. 470kw+ @ 18PSI

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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:47 pm 
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What kind of power are you chasing? Thats a 1000hp turbo isnt it?

Cant wait to see the results.
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:39 pm 
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Ride: Boosted ED XR6, EBII Mont Wgn

Power: 252 rwkw

Location: Mildura
VIC, Australia

don't snort do a liquid/air intercooler kit??

where you are going to mount that is going to restrict air flow to the radiator..

 

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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:34 pm 
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nice, but wat about air flow throu the radiator?

y the upgrade to bigger turbo?

 

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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:52 am 
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its to mounted where ive shown it.. i cant see airflow being a problem. we'll see. It will have a small air gap between the cooler and the a/c condensor, and then, there is a bit of a gap between the a/c and the radiator, i think it will breathe enough in and around that area to work good enough.. the falcon fans do a great job. If i have issues, i may make a nice ally radiator with a racing spec core

Why the bigger turbo? because i personally beleive that at near 400kw, the gt35 is well past its best effiency.. sure, 450kw is achieveable if you squeeze the thing hard. but, why not achieve the figures you want with a turbo thats exactly in the best part of its intended effiency?? remember, the 1000hp figure is a MAX figure, not the BEST figure for the turbo... also, the exhaust side flows 31% better, so im hoping for very little exhaust backpressure... should go well with a 3.5in system

and, if later down the track i want to build a forged bottom end, then there is the option of winding the gt42 up

 

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EB 4L, 8.4:1, R154, GT4202r, 4in exhaust, Greenslade Engineering exhaust manifold, plenum chamber, 90mm throttle, Garrett W2A cooler, Surecam custom, autronic SM4, Bosch 120lb, Crane HI-6, LX-92, LM-1, Turbosmart Reg, 2x bosch 044, turbosmart 48 gate. 470kw+ @ 18PSI

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