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Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8. 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:04 pm 
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EBXR8380 wrote:
AU engine has higher compression..
Better rod length and near bullet proof mains...
The rods can be an issue with high boost..
My son's car run 11's with totally stock assembly including cam and valve springs..
It had C4 and t04z turbo..In ED Fairmont..
If you run it on E85 and good tune it will go all day on 330 rwkw...
Just need double fuel supply 85Lb + injectors...

The overdrive and lower gear ratio's meant drive shaft is spinning fast..
However with 3 speed auto a 3.08 / 3.45 is fine with well balanced drive shaft..



Yeh but in saying that a stock EL motor will take more power then an AU.
Every now and then a car pops up running a stock AU motor that is quite impressive,Like your sons for example. Personally i wouldnt even bother trying to get 300rwkw out of a stock EL or AU motor, Build a AU engine and be done with it :D

 

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:32 pm 
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Michael (HYPOEB) wrote:
Na mate,You will be very lucky to get 300rwkw out of a stock AU bottom end. Even if you did you would only be a matter of time befor you bend a rod.

If your going to use a stock motor go with an EL engine
If your going to build a motor then use an AU engine


I guess I will be going EL engine then.
I have since found, on the thread about DIY turboing your i6 that he says to piggy back your aftermarket ecu so the stock ecu can still run the auto.
Is this the best way to go? Or is there a better option?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:45 am 
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Keep in mind the AU rods look to me like B series turbo rods...
Yes they weren't the best either..
It is the compression that helps earlier engines being 8.8 comp..
9.2 / 9.6 comp ratio limits boost levels, makes tune FAR more critical...
Although high-sh comp makes low boost engines very throttle responsive !!!
E85 would make very safe tune..
;
Trouble is all these engines are getting old now..
Getting an EL/ AU with low Klrs in good condition ???
In any case if buying another block I would add rods and pistons..
Which are quite reasonable now..
Spool etc have packages...
http://www.spoolimports.com/spool-conro ... ef-conrods
AU rod length can be used in E series blocks with AU pin height pistons..
Less side load on bore and better at higher rpm...
All the SOHC blocks have plenty of meat around critical areas..
Add 114 LSA cam with decent double valve springs makes a safe 400 kw engine..
All depends on what power you want to make and application ??
If running std BTR too much over 300 kw ??
They start having durability issues..
Plus on the street ?? You don't need much more anyway!!
I agree Michael what you say..
If you can get a GOOD E.L engine, go for it...
Nothing like having a forged rotating assembly though!!!

 

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331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

Last edited by EBXR8380 on Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:49 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Double post..
Piston rod package..
http://www.spoolimports.com/spool-conro ... kages/ford

 

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As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:50 pm 
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EBXR8380 wrote:
Keep in mind the AU rods look to me like B series turbo rods...
Yes they weren't the best either..
It is the compression that helps earlier engines being 8.8 comp..
9.2 / 9.6 comp ratio limits boost levels, makes tune FAR more critical...
Although high-sh comp makes low boost engines very throttle responsive !!!
E85 would make very safe tune..
;
Trouble is all these engines are getting old now..
Getting an EL/ AU with low Klrs in good condition ???
In any case if buying another block I would add rods and pistons..
Which are quite reasonable now..
Spool etc have packages...
http://www.spoolimports.com/spool-conro ... ef-conrods
AU rod length can be used in E series blocks with AU pin height pistons..
Less side load on bore and better at higher rpm...
All the SOHC blocks have plenty of meat around critical areas..
Add 114 LSA cam with decent double valve springs makes a safe 400 kw engine..
All depends on what power you want to make and application ??
If running std BTR too much over 300 kw ??
They start having durability issues..
Plus on the street ?? You don't need much more anyway!!
I agree Michael what you say..
If you can get a GOOD E.L engine, go for it...
Nothing like having a forged rotating assembly though!!!


Interesting...
I'm wanting to aim for about 300rwkw.
Few things I don't understand...
Firstly, Your saying I'm best to do rods either way?
What is E85?
and you think Im best to go away from the stand cam?
I assume that links you left are in AUD, Meaning I would need to consider the exchange rate and shipping to NZ?

Seems like its starting to get a bit more in depth than just getting an engine, swapping them over, throwing on the turbo kit, wiring an ems and changing injectors? lol.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Dax wrote:
EBXR8380 wrote:
Keep in mind the AU rods look to me like B series turbo rods...
Yes they weren't the best either..
It is the compression that helps earlier engines being 8.8 comp..
9.2 / 9.6 comp ratio limits boost levels, makes tune FAR more critical...
Although high-sh comp makes low boost engines very throttle responsive !!!
E85 would make very safe tune..
;
Trouble is all these engines are getting old now..
Getting an EL/ AU with low Klrs in good condition ???
In any case if buying another block I would add rods and pistons..
Which are quite reasonable now..
Spool etc have packages...
http://www.spoolimports.com/spool-conro ... ef-conrods
AU rod length can be used in E series blocks with AU pin height pistons..
Less side load on bore and better at higher rpm...
All the SOHC blocks have plenty of meat around critical areas..
Add 114 LSA cam with decent double valve springs makes a safe 400 kw engine..
All depends on what power you want to make and application ??
If running std BTR too much over 300 kw ??
They start having durability issues..
Plus on the street ?? You don't need much more anyway!!
I agree Michael what you say..
If you can get a GOOD E.L engine, go for it...
Nothing like having a forged rotating assembly though!!!


Interesting...
I'm wanting to aim for about 300rwkw.
Few things I don't understand...
Firstly, Your saying I'm best to do rods either way?
What is E85?
and you think Im best to go away from the stand cam?
I assume that links you left are in AUD, Meaning I would need to consider the exchange rate and shipping to NZ?


e85 =85% ethinol fuel

i think 300rwkw is the point of question, where it would be at the max that std au rods will take, upgrading rods and pistons will let it make well over 300rwkw comfortably with no worries of bending rods..


Dax wrote:
Seems like its starting to get a bit more in depth than just getting an engine, swapping them over, throwing on the turbo kit, wiring an ems and changing injectors? lol.


this is where im at!
std engine, thrown on a turbo kit, ems+injectors and tune..
im reliably at the 270rwkw mark. i say reliably as i drive it every day, have run it down the 1/4 more than 30 times in the last 2 years.. i can and have upped the boost from 12psi to 15 and even 18psi for short runs every now and then, and by the seat of the pants feel, it would be atleast 300rwkw mark but the big question is how long will it take it???
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:32 pm 
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TROYMAN wrote:
e85 =85% ethinol fuel

i think 300rwkw is the point of question, where it would be at the max that std au rods will take, upgrading rods and pistons will let it make well over 300rwkw comfortably with no worries of bending rods..


Dax wrote:
Seems like its starting to get a bit more in depth than just getting an engine, swapping them over, throwing on the turbo kit, wiring an ems and changing injectors? lol.


this is where im at!
std engine, thrown on a turbo kit, ems+injectors and tune..
im reliably at the 270rwkw mark. i say reliably as i drive it every day, have run it down the 1/4 more than 30 times in the last 2 years.. i can and have upped the boost from 12psi to 15 and even 18psi for short runs every now and then, and by the seat of the pants feel, it would be atleast 300rwkw mark but the big question is how long will it take it???


So if I went with some new rods/pistons, How further can I push it with the same set up as your running?
Looks like I need to decide If I want 300+ or something similar to you, As I don't want to risk reliability too much.

UPDATE: I've been doing some research and thinking and feel I would be happy with a similar power level/1/4 mile time as yourself.
If I could run in the 12s I would be happy, I've been to a few drag events locally, and in the last 6 the fastest I've seen is 12.56 (Done by a rather large and noisy v8).

 

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:08 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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With decent rods and pistons, 9 to 1 comp EB on Boost made 550 RWKW
at 26 Lb..160 Lb injectors and two Bosch Motor sport pumps..
Like I said it depends how far you want to go ??
N.Z would have to add 30% due to exchange rate..
An E.L over there wouldn't run the klrs here in Aussie..
For durability!! I wouldn't push more than 300 RWKW
as issues with trans start to appear..
In fact 250 / 275 would be very Stout..
KEEP in mind this is RWKW..
The Gen lll Holden have 225 / 250 at the fly...
Turbo engines have WAY more torque than N/A ...
You could still drive it all day and never go over 3000 rpm..
I'm not saying the AU is stronger.. Just the reasons why they fail..
Just like the B.A's .. If boost comes on too early.. The rods have a tendency to bend
or fail...A GOOD tuner will keep it alive ...

 

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As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Those rods and pistons from spool are about $2400 NZD delivered and insured (give or take the exchange rate on the day) I think they are rated at 1200hp. That is direct from the spool website, which isn't too bad but I'm waiting to see if my rebuilder can get a better deal.

Standard rods MAY last, but why take the risk? If you are going to spend money on getting a nice engine, do it once, do it right.
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:38 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Power: 482 rwkw

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Talk to Brad at http://www.atomicperformanceproducts.com/

If your serious about racing ??
Think about Powerglide or TH400 auto..
The bellhousing are sold on eBay from Dellow...
On 3350+ veh under 700 h.p the 3 speed TH400 is best..

Whatever engine at this level forged rods and pistons are
a MUST unless you like fitting second hand engines..

Light port E series head with AU sized valve stems,valve guides...Lighter and flow, revs better..

But really just forged assembly and everything else near stock
You can run 350 / 400 RWKW all day...
Little things like increasing sump capacity helps oil cooling etc...
BTW you may be GST exempt ???
If buying O/S ??

 

_________________

As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Yea -10% off your retail, just chuck it back on for postage.
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:09 pm 
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I have no idea of turbo prices, but would this turbo do the job?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-par ... 814795.htm

 

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:49 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Power: 482 rwkw

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NO listing on wheel size etc..
The turbine is LARGE for a t04 housing..

 

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As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:02 pm 
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I found a standard el 4.0l engine and trans with 39,000kms on it that i can get. Is it better to use these or the xr6 engine for turboing?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo I6 vs N/A Cleveland V8.
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:44 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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The XR6 has higher compression..
Which will limit max power and makes tuning more critical..
The XR6 bottom end and is the same as std assembly..
The XR heads have larger exh valves,
smaller combustion chambers..

 

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As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

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