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Turbo Vs Supercharger 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:57 pm 
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I Remember reading an article in Street machine many many moons ago when Castlemaine Rod shop were marketing supercharger kits for the commonwhore V6. there was a comment about a compressor style clutch, which meant if ya wanted a mad max style on/off switch it was possible. can't see how it would work on a 6/71 tho
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:06 pm 
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SWC wrote:
Povvo_XT wrote:
That an M90 charger? i'm in two minds ATM, As i have been going over CHEF's post about a DIY Turbo system, and it doesn't look that difficult. See why i like the idea of a charger is it's constant boost, and that way if the wife is driving it, there's no suprise when boost comes on.
And in comparing the two, how difficut is a supercharger conversion as opposed to a turbo system?


The Charger is a Lysholm AX1600.

A PD Charger properly set up is not on boost all the time. It can be if you want but not the best way to do it. You fit a Vac operated bypass valve which only cuts in when thevac drops allowing boost. This way the car operates like an NA until you plant it, then you have boost straight up.

Centrifical Chargers operate like a turbo but don't generate the same power.

Fuel system upgrade is very similar if not the same as a Turbo. Bigger fuel pump, larger injectors, improved fuel Reg. I am using the BA/BF XR6 Turbo reg.

Fitting a PD chrager is not as simple a people think. A lot of the work will be custom to be done properly.

I have 2 M90 Chargers here that are excess to my needs as well as a partially build intake. You could mount the PD Remote from the intake and use the EA-ED Log manifold.

Happy to give any advice that I can.


Spare M90's? send me an inbox if you don't mind. am planning to build this motor based an an AU 4.0L i have that's only got about 1670xxx on it. Is the M90 a PD Charger?
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:12 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: NA Fairlane, DC LTD

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Povvo_XT wrote:
I Remember reading an article in Street machine many many moons ago when Castlemaine Rod shop were marketing supercharger kits for the commonwhore V6. there was a comment about a compressor style clutch, which meant if ya wanted a mad max style on/off switch it was possible. can't see how it would work on a 6/71 tho


An old quote a mechanic one told me was "with a little engineering, anything is possible"

But wouldn't it me more than what it's worth?

With an EFI car especially (RE: crapodore V6)? Different fuel maps/ratios/pressures required? Cams? ECU tunes? I'm no expert but I can't see it being as simple as a clutch switch.. :?

Maybe a little easier with blow through carb setup cos it would simply suck more fuel through pressure?

 

_________________

[color=#004080]Cheers, Jacob.

NA Fairlane Build thread:
the-garage-f53/my-fairlane-build-lowlane-t94891.html.
Also in the garage....
AU LTD, DC LTD, and Lowlane.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:38 am 
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Povvo_XT wrote:
SWC wrote:
Povvo_XT wrote:
That an M90 charger? i'm in two minds ATM, As i have been going over CHEF's post about a DIY Turbo system, and it doesn't look that difficult. See why i like the idea of a charger is it's constant boost, and that way if the wife is driving it, there's no suprise when boost comes on.
And in comparing the two, how difficut is a supercharger conversion as opposed to a turbo system?


The Charger is a Lysholm AX1600.

A PD Charger properly set up is not on boost all the time. It can be if you want but not the best way to do it. You fit a Vac operated bypass valve which only cuts in when thevac drops allowing boost. This way the car operates like an NA until you plant it, then you have boost straight up.

Centrifical Chargers operate like a turbo but don't generate the same power.

Fuel system upgrade is very similar if not the same as a Turbo. Bigger fuel pump, larger injectors, improved fuel Reg. I am using the BA/BF XR6 Turbo reg.

Fitting a PD chrager is not as simple a people think. A lot of the work will be custom to be done properly.

I have 2 M90 Chargers here that are excess to my needs as well as a partially build intake. You could mount the PD Remote from the intake and use the EA-ED Log manifold.

Happy to give any advice that I can.


Spare M90's? send me an inbox if you don't mind. am planning to build this motor based an an AU 4.0L i have that's only got about 1670xxx on it. Is the M90 a PD Charger?


Yes Eaton M90 is a PD Supercharger. They are Gen 3 units off Mustang 3.8L.
Attachment:
eaton_M90_drawing.gif
eaton_M90_drawing.gif [ 29.29 KiB | Viewed 56 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:07 am 
Stock as a Rock
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NSW, Australia

SWC wrote:
Povvo_XT wrote:
SWC wrote:
Povvo_XT wrote:
That an M90 charger? i'm in two minds ATM, As i have been going over CHEF's post about a DIY Turbo system, and it doesn't look that difficult. See why i like the idea of a charger is it's constant boost, and that way if the wife is driving it, there's no suprise when boost comes on.
And in comparing the two, how difficut is a supercharger conversion as opposed to a turbo system?


The Charger is a Lysholm AX1600.

A PD Charger properly set up is not on boost all the time. It can be if you want but not the best way to do it. You fit a Vac operated bypass valve which only cuts in when thevac drops allowing boost. This way the car operates like an NA until you plant it, then you have boost straight up.

Centrifical Chargers operate like a turbo but don't generate the same power.

Fuel system upgrade is very similar if not the same as a Turbo. Bigger fuel pump, larger injectors, improved fuel Reg. I am using the BA/BF XR6 Turbo reg.

Fitting a PD chrager is not as simple a people think. A lot of the work will be custom to be done properly.

I have 2 M90 Chargers here that are excess to my needs as well as a partially build intake. You could mount the PD Remote from the intake and use the EA-ED Log manifold.

Happy to give any advice that I can.


Spare M90's? send me an inbox if you don't mind. am planning to build this motor based an an AU 4.0L i have that's only got about 1670xxx on it. Is the M90 a PD Charger?


Yes Eaton M90 is a PD Supercharger. They are Gen 3 units off Mustang 3.8L.
Attachment:
eaton_M90_drawing.gif


how much for the goodies you have?
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:08 am 
Getting Side Ways
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I read somewhere that a clutch like those on the SC series chargers would fry quickly on anything like a M90 or up.. too much power to spin the charger at speed for the size of clutch it would be..

regardless you'd also need some sort of intake bypass to make it work properly as the teflon coated rotors in an M90 would not allow much air (almost none) though if they were not spinning.
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:01 am 
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Povvo_XT wrote:
SWC wrote:
Povvo_XT wrote:
SWC wrote:
Povvo_XT wrote:
That an M90 charger? i'm in two minds ATM, As i have been going over CHEF's post about a DIY Turbo system, and it doesn't look that difficult. See why i like the idea of a charger is it's constant boost, and that way if the wife is driving it, there's no suprise when boost comes on.
And in comparing the two, how difficut is a supercharger conversion as opposed to a turbo system?


The Charger is a Lysholm AX1600.

A PD Charger properly set up is not on boost all the time. It can be if you want but not the best way to do it. You fit a Vac operated bypass valve which only cuts in when thevac drops allowing boost. This way the car operates like an NA until you plant it, then you have boost straight up.

Centrifical Chargers operate like a turbo but don't generate the same power.

Fuel system upgrade is very similar if not the same as a Turbo. Bigger fuel pump, larger injectors, improved fuel Reg. I am using the BA/BF XR6 Turbo reg.

Fitting a PD chrager is not as simple a people think. A lot of the work will be custom to be done properly.

I have 2 M90 Chargers here that are excess to my needs as well as a partially build intake. You could mount the PD Remote from the intake and use the EA-ED Log manifold.

Happy to give any advice that I can.


Spare M90's? send me an inbox if you don't mind. am planning to build this motor based an an AU 4.0L i have that's only got about 1670xxx on it. Is the M90 a PD Charger?


Yes Eaton M90 is a PD Supercharger. They are Gen 3 units off Mustang 3.8L.
Attachment:
eaton_M90_drawing.gif


how much for the goodies you have?


I will have a look at everything that is there and get back to you very soon.
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:16 pm 
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NSW, Australia

[/quote]

I will have a look at everything that is there and get back to you very soon.[/quote]

God bless ya!
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:56 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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SWC wrote:
how much for the goodies you have?


I will have a look at everything that is there and get back to you very soon.[/quote]

Oh, BTW, I Forgot to ask. the setup you have with the M90? is it for the later 4L engine, or the earlier motors?
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:06 pm 
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4L, same as 3.9
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:09 am 
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Povvo_XT wrote:


I will have a look at everything that is there and get back to you very soon.[/quote]

God bless ya![/quote]

I will try and check things soon for you. I have had to deal with a family issue. Will try and let you know soon.
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:24 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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The Beasty is now sitting in the driveway. Now to sort out what i need to get it on the road!
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:34 am 
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SWC wrote:
Povvo_XT wrote:


I will have a look at everything that is there and get back to you very soon.


God bless ya![/quote]

I will try and check things soon for you. I have had to deal with a family issue. Will try and let you know soon.[/quote]

PM's sent
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:25 am 
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You should also look at bypass actuators so that when you are cruising, the blower will bypass back into the inlet side.

They are Vac actuated. All you need to do is add a vac hose from your intake manifold to the actuator. When you boot it and the vac drops, actuator closes the butterfly valve and you have boost. on normal cruise or light throttle, valve is open and the engine is off boost.

How the set up works

Attachment:
bypass Valve install normal.jpg
bypass Valve install normal.jpg [ 25.89 KiB | Viewed 59 times ]


Whipple Bypass Valves. I got mine from Yellaterra in Vic. This is the selection of styles that are available.

Attachment:
bypass valve 2.jpg
bypass valve 2.jpg [ 28.94 KiB | Viewed 58 times ]


This is what mine looks like.

Attachment:
Bypass valve.JPG
Bypass valve.JPG [ 79.95 KiB | Viewed 53 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Vs Supercharger
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:54 am 
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You will also need a chip to tune the ECU.

Look at the Moates site and see the gear there. http://www.moates.net/ford-19862004-c-63.html

You will need their F3 Chip (J3)
http://www.moates.net/f3-ford-memory-ad ... l?cPath=63
and also the Jaybird Programmer
http://www.moates.net/jaybird-j3-module ... l?cPath=63

If you want to read your stock ECU and dump the Binaries etc then you will need the Burn2 Programmer
http://www.moates.net/burn2-chip-progra ... l?cPath=63
and also the FA Adaptor
http://www.moates.net/fa-ford-module-pr ... l?cPath=63

You will only need either the Jaybird or the Burn2, you won't need both.

You can then use Tunerpro to do your tuning.

I am using the Quarterhorse but I won't go recommending that yet for the 6cyl as I still have further work to do to ensure that every thing works on the Live tuning side. Car is currently running on the Quarterhorse but with a cost difference of $135/160 for the F3 set up and $250 for the Quarterhorse, if the live tuning doesn't work then you have blown $100. I also purchased Binary Editor when I got my Quarterhorse so that added to the cost

If you don't want to go through Moates US, then contact BPR in Melbourne, nice guy but can be a little odd. He will help you out.
http://www.bulletperformanceracing.com. ... dware.html
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