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Water to Air intercoolers 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:44 am 
Getting Side Ways
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I hear wrapping headers can cause premature rust, is this the case?

Will the car run richer with an 82deg thermostat?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:57 am 
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JoeXR6 wrote:

Non-intercooled centrifugal blowers will definately suffer heat soak, despite venting, etc (which as cooky said does help). They're cooler than turbos, which use hot exhaust to spin them, but there's no getting past a hot engine bay putting heat into the blower/intake pipework/inlet manifold....they'll always get warmer as an engine reaches operating temp, particularly in traffic.

In addition boost creates heat so the more you pulley it up, the hotter it gets. Be it turbo or supercharged, compressing the air will also heat that air, potentially causing pinging, and a power drop.

I notice a significant difference on my engine between a cold day, when its driven freely, or when it sits for ages in traffic (really bogs down and loses throttle response and power). I've seen the difference across 3 years of driving my car non-intercooled. Intercooling (particularly water/air) is the best way around this!

Joe


Thanks for the explanation Joe, thats helped me understand this setup a bit more. W2A is what I aim for, so Im hoping this will eliminate a majority of heat soak as possible, combined with a heat shield.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:10 am 
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[/quote]

Thanks for the explanation Joe, thats helped me understand this setup a bit more. W2A is what I aim for, so Im hoping this will eliminate a majority of heat soak as possible, combined with a heat shield.[/quote]

Shav, the intercooler will help with everything...heat soak, air density, pinging, power, response, etc. The heat shield will also help....I fitted one over my pacemakers a few months ago and they really work well. If my extractors were off I'd wrap them as well despite the risks (mostly cracking I believe...though a weld is not expensive!).

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:13 am 
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JoeXR6 wrote:

Shav, the intercooler will help with everything...heat soak, air density, pinging, power, response, etc. The heat shield will also help....I fitted one over my pacemakers a few months ago and they really work well. If my extractors were off I'd wrap them as well despite the risks (mostly cracking I believe...though a weld is not expensive!).

Joe[/quote]

Fair enough mate. I really dont want to keep welding up headers if I can avoid it. But the heat shield is a must for me. Might even do it this weekend if I get the chance.

But from what you say about the w2a kit, it seems to be the answer to all supercharger prayers. I certainly hope this can open up some doors for the Raptors in the long run. My feelings tell me its only the beginning.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:22 am 
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The standard Ford heat shields are the same stuff as ACL use, and with some pushing and prodding will fit over pacemakers quite tidily. You'd pick a shield up from the wreckers for $20 if you don't have one already....worth considering.....as the holes are correctly spaced too.

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:25 am 
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JoeXR6 wrote:
The standard Ford heat shields are the same stuff as ACL use, and with some pushing and prodding will fit over pacemakers quite tidily. You'd pick a shield up from the wreckers for $20 if you don't have one already....worth considering.....as the holes are correctly spaced too.

Joe


True. I have a spare one at home here. I could give it a shot as I dont have anything to lose. But my issue is I have the pacemaker 4480s and have heard that they wont quite fit over the headers nicely, hence my suggestion of the ACL heat shield as its much larger and is ready to be fitted to shape.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:32 am 
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Sure...mine are 4499's, I didn't consider that! Let us know if the ACL shield helps.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:50 pm 
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Quote:
Not really, I live westside. I'm aware of Rob Bliss at Geebung, and there's one at Brendale who are failry performance oriented, which is closer to you. Not sure of the name. There would be a few round your area.

Ok thanks for that, i will have a look around, i have heard some good things about the place in Geebung.
Dont know enough about the places in my area.
Shav what exactly is the purpose of an 82 d thermostat ?
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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:56 pm 
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ToxicAdam wrote:
Quote:
Not really, I live westside. I'm aware of Rob Bliss at Geebung, and there's one at Brendale who are failry performance oriented, which is closer to you. Not sure of the name. There would be a few round your area.

Ok thanks for that, i will have a look around, i have heard some good things about the place in Geebung.
Dont know enough about the places in my area.
Shav what exactly is the purpose of an 82 d thermostat ?


My guess is to run the fuel mixtures a bit richer for cooling effect. Generally when you start your car first thing in the morning, the coolant is cold. The engine will notice this and add more fuel similar to a choke till the engine gets to operating temp or pretty much where the thermostat temp allows it to.

If I were to run a cooler thermostat as cooky suggested, I would get the car retuned to accept the extra fuel dumping in, that way on a hot day the extra fuel will help cool the intake charge. I beleive this will chew thru more fuel, but will lessen the chance of detonation.

Again this is my understanding of what the cooler thermostat will do for my setup. If anyone out there wants to correct me, feel free.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:02 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Thanks Shav
Do you think a bigger throttle body would go down well with a raptor sc kit ?
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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:07 pm 
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ToxicAdam wrote:
Thanks Shav
Do you think a bigger throttle body would go down well with a raptor sc kit ?


Not really. Supercharger uses air velocity rather than volume. (correct me if Im wrong)

If you were to increase the TB you would need more air to fill it. This could result in lower boost.

Again, this is my understanding.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:13 pm 
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Quote:
Not really. Supercharger uses air velocity rather than volume. (correct me if Im wrong)

If you were to increase the TB you would need more air to fill it. This could result in lower boost.

Again, this is my understanding.

Correct me if im wrong, the stock bf throttle bodies have a 70mm butterfly.
Increasing to a 75mm Throttle body which can be bought from SS inductions, would it have much effect on boost pressures ?
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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:16 pm 
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ToxicAdam wrote:
Quote:
Not really. Supercharger uses air velocity rather than volume. (correct me if Im wrong)

If you were to increase the TB you would need more air to fill it. This could result in lower boost.

Again, this is my understanding.

Correct me if im wrong, the stock bf throttle bodies have a 70mm butterfly.
Increasing to a 75mm Throttle body which can be bought from SS inductions, would it have much effect on boost pressures ?


Again, I couldnt tell you for sure. But I doubt it will make much of a difference as it would if were NA. If you were to up the boost on your s/c setup then there is a chance power could be found. But if I were you, Id save your cash and put it towards diff gears or something.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:18 pm 
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shav wrote:
ToxicAdam wrote:
Thanks Shav
Do you think a bigger throttle body would go down well with a raptor sc kit ?


Not really. Supercharger uses air velocity rather than volume. (correct me if Im wrong)

If you were to increase the TB you would need more air to fill it. This could result in lower boost.

Again, this is my understanding.

wouldn't result in lower boost.
if the TB is a restriction, you'll see a pressure drop across it, eg. 8psi in manifold but 10psi in the intake piping (that would be an extreme example).
if there is no pressure drop across the TB, then a bigger one won't provide any increase in power.
for the power levels you are looking at, i personally don't think a bigger throttle body is going to provide any increase.
but you could always do the above test to be 100% sure.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water to Air intercoolers
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:19 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ok thanks shav for the help
got any ideas on whether an lsd from an xr6 turbo can go into a xr6 n/a
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