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will Stage 3 kill my car?! 

 

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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:05 am 
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imo no point starting small and working your way up, unless your a tight a**..
been there done that..
unless your going to be happy with an entry level power and leave it there!!! (i doubt it) boost is like a drug you will want more..lol..
because starting small can seem cheaper but as soon as you get used to the cheap power level or its not making your expected power.. you will start upping boost to get more. then you might do a cam change,? either way you then spend some cash getting it re tuned to find its not getting enough fuel after upping the boost, so your up for larger injectors, then you find the fmu becomes un reliable and you might start getting issues with the extreme fuel pressure killing the walbro pumps, or you cannot get stable afr's which can limit the max power output..
so you decide to ditch the fmu and go aftermarket ecu or j3 chip and go to large injectors, again needing a re tune..(more cash) next you find that the exhaust is in need of an upgrade, so more cash for a 3" exhaust.. in the end , well in my case i went from a car with 188rwkw to the same car now making over 260rwkw on a stock engine.. so my 5g budget ended up being around a 10g budget.. mainly because i had spent the cash twice on fuel system upgrades,clutch upgrades and tuning..
and if you dont get it tuned or pick a bad tuner your sure to go through at least 1 engine..
im sure there will be gear box failure at some point..= more cash. :roll: ..

so my conclusion is if you go cheap, leave it cheap with entry level power..

if you want to get the most out of your set up, do the research and spend the cash up front, it might seem like alot but you will save a few thousand in the long run..
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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:03 am 
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shane falcon futura wrote:
the most useless ah well all i can say is mates car is still running good after 6 months of installing turbo fuel reg walbro pump injectors and a standard computer after going for a drive in it its a bloody weapon and it cost him no more than 2 grand to build ,,that is a budget build mate a good one ,,so will a stage three kit kill my car maybe maybe not all depends on how much money u want to spend rebuilding engines and so on sure u can get it chipped or fork out a few grand for a good aftermarket ecu then even more money to get it tunned ,as the tunner said start small and work your way up do ur homwork see what works and what dont and go from there. there are to many dumb asses on here that think they know more than racing car builders and drag car tunners ..there are heaps of cheap builds on here and boosted e series to have a look at so u can make up your own mind better still buy and already built ,,,just a sugestion any way good luck with it all mate just remember build it the way u want ,and can afford ...have fun


so your mate has no FMU? And he's running 10psi? Your full of it. Mate you have no idea and your giving the OP a sure fire way of blowing his motor. It is an absolute necessary to add extra fuel under boost. The cheap, dodgy way is an FMU, the proper way depends on boost levels being used. A J3 can be used for up to 12psi at this point.

 

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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:10 am 
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com on dude r u serious or what ,i asked the guy about the map sensor and tuning he said as long as u have good fuel and the setup is good shouldnt have any prob .i also looked at at a few other builds on this website a few of them are using a standard computer and there getting 220 rwkws,but in saying that if u are going for more boost yes a chip or aftermarket ecu is the go as the standard system will not handle it,the tunner has a car in the shop at the moment a el with a snort setup simular to my mates car has a j3 chip in it pushing 300rwkw and yes it has larger injectors .as the guy said using v8 injectors or xr6 turbo injectors will work fine with a standard ecu this guy know his stuff been building cars and dragracing them for a few years so ,if he says u can use this system for reliability and good performance id agree from the last time i spoke to him he hasnt had a car blow up or break any thinks so yeah ,,if u think its all s**t well that your opinion have a look at som of the setup on here and see for your self mate ...

 

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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:14 am 
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oh yeah also hes running a vortect 12/1 rising rate fuel reg and changed the fuel pump to a bosch one as the walbros have prob handling the higher fuel presures

 

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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:37 am 
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troyman yea i agree but if ur going to spend that much money on a 14 year old car,u be better of getting a ba turbo and spend the money on that from what iv seen the upgrade kits and tunning systems are not that expencive 5 grand for a good upgrade and tunning with a flash .mates brother has a ba pushing 350 os rwkw and that running all the standard gear trany and so on the only up grade was the fuel exhaust and the flash tunner wich he done using a lap top so yeah som people want the power but cant afford big upgrades so some of them are happy with the performance they are getting ..my mates happy as a pig in mud with his set up good enough to blow of a wrx on 10 psi and 2 grand or so spent on it s**t the cars only cost him 500. so if he blows it he can alway get anther engine for a few dollars ah ......im just waiting on some xr6 injectors for mine at the moment so i can stir him up abit at the drags should be funn lol anyway......

 

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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:29 am 
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shane falcon futura wrote:
oh yeah also hes running a vortect 12/1 rising rate fuel reg and changed the fuel pump to a bosch one as the walbros have prob handling the higher fuel presures


Nice to add that in AFTER you said standard fuel system...... 12:1 rising rate = FMU. Dodgy, but can work. Axeman83 has pushed J3 tuning to a new level. He's running 60lb Siemens injectors and 12psi for 353rwkw,

 

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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:02 pm 
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67RCE wrote:
shane falcon futura wrote:
oh yeah also hes running a vortect 12/1 rising rate fuel reg and changed the fuel pump to a bosch one as the walbros have prob handling the higher fuel presures


Nice to add that in AFTER you said standard fuel system...... 12:1 rising rate = FMU. Dodgy, but can work. Axeman83 has pushed J3 tuning to a new level. He's running 60lb Siemens injectors and 12psi for 353rwkw,


Exactly. Who does this little s**t for brains think he is by stating that the car is stock and then adding the critical facts after he's been torn a new a***hole.

Rising rate regs are not stock. Aftermarket pumps are not stock. Had s**t said "relatively stock" and mentioned the above parts then not a bad word would have been said in this thread.
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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:46 pm 
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180rwkw on 10psi is actually pretty bloody poor, sorry to bust your bubble.
I have an EL that made 200rwkw on 5psi... And its by no means an expensive or flashy setup.

 

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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:59 am 
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can u guys read or what ,,wtf would u drive a non turbo car with a turbo running no rising rate fuel reg or a ecu or chip i dont think so why reply with a silly remark for. u think you guys are the only one out there building turbod falcons com on some of the guys i helped with there cars havnt even herd of this web site .and i have to say its getting pretty old with all the baging out and s**t ..people get on here trying to help other out not by telling them how to build cars but letting them know of diferent options avalible ..and most of the coments on here are just out righ blood stupid ...i thought this was a ford modification web site .............................

 

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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:15 am 
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shane falcon futura wrote:
can u guys read or what ,,wtf would u drive a non turbo car with a turbo running no rising rate fuel reg or a ecu or chip i dont think so why reply with a silly remark for. u think you guys are the only one out there building turbod falcons com on some of the guys i helped with there cars havnt even herd of this web site .and i have to say its getting pretty old with all the baging out and s**t ..people get on here trying to help other out not by telling them how to build cars but letting them know of diferent options avalible ..and most of the coments on here are just out righ blood stupid ...i thought this was a ford modification web site .............................

Mate,

The way you worded your post it said that the car was stock except for the turbo. This means no aftermarket fuel pump, no additional FPR and no tuning. If you said the car had an aftermarket fuel pump and a 12:1 Rising Rate, I wouldn't have told you to shut the f**k up.

To the OP, a Stage 3 Snort kit will not kill your car providing it has:
1. Solid fuel system (I would honestly go Bosch 023 intank pump and 42lb/hr injectors as a minimum)
2. Tuning (To do it cheaper, J3 with the boost edit would be my recomendation)

These two factors will determine 75% of the engines ability to take boost. The remaining 25% will be influenced by driving style and boost level. Basically, using an EF/L engine, 250rwkw would be a pretty reliable, punchy street car!

 

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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:28 pm 
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shane falcon futura wrote:
can u guys read or what ,,wtf would u drive a non turbo car with a turbo running no rising rate fuel reg or a ecu or chip i dont think so why reply with a silly remark for.


Belive it or not but that's what people did in the early days. Just chuck a turbo on an NA engine and drive it around till it blows up. After blowing up a few of them in quick succession people then realised that they had to up the mixture. So what did they do? Extra injectors tapped into the intake piping wired off another injector and few hobbs pressure switches. Believe it or not but this bodgy back yard method of staged injectors is good for a 10 second pass all day every day. But its not stock. Now this is where we have to determine what stock is.

To most people on the street stock is exactly that. As is from the factory. Now depending on what magazine you read stock can mean a myriad of other things. Stock in the eyes of a magazine mechanic takes on many forms.

Mechanically stock - usually means a standard motor but with thousands of bucks spent on the fuel and ignition systems.

Relatively stock - usually meaning a mechanically standard motor but with some aditional bolt ons (like aftermarket turbo or just a cam or some light head work)

Stock block - yes the block may be a factory casting but the rotating assembly sure as hell isn't. Not to menthion that the block has had a miryad of mods to accomodate the big bug assembly and its matching oiling system. Crank girdles, steel main cab conversions and prepped oil restrictors come to mind. Yes the block may be a factory item but after being tickled to this extent the only thing stock is the engine number.

So you see, even matouk's 8/7 second VL turbo has "stock" parts in it. But when you are dealing with forum tight a*** you've got to clearly make sure that your definition of stock matches theirs.

And yes, 180rwkW for a 10psi turbo setup on a 4 litre engine is rather embarrassing. Your mates tuner obviously comes from the s**t for bucks school if he wants his customers to come in every month for their 5-10kw incremental increases.
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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:14 am 
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yeah ok i did say 180 plus rwkw..meaning that the car will do more than 180 rwkw i dont have the dyno read out so it was a rough estament pardon me ,they where at it again today for another run the numbers where over 220 or so when the harmonic ballancer spun off so the cars waiting for another run .and being a good tunner has other cars waiting mostly drag cars and speed way cars ...and som of those guy where impressed ,that the car is running a stock engine getting those numbers oops sorry did i say stock excuse me i mean it has a cam biger pistions and a computer and fuel system good enough for a space shuttle com on this is s**t a stock engine is that bloody stock i dont give a s**t about the fuel system or electronics take the turbo off and a few other bits and its a standard out of the factory bloody car ,,put non standard parts in the engine ,,then its not stock ..tell the guys with drag cars it not standard because of a few parts added on they will laugh at you all ...no wonder these guys laughed at this web site ............................................................................

 

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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:18 am 
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oh and by the way hes not a bad tunner either would u send ur 80 thousand somthing drag car to a guy to be dynoed if he is s**t i dont thinks so...............

 

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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:30 am 
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Do us all a favour and go talk to a brick wall, then you may find somthing you and a brick wall have in common, NO BRAIN

 

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 Post subject: Re: will Stage 3 kill my car?!
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:32 am 
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Exactly. If you are prepared to back him that much then why don't you name him? Till then you talk as much s**t as my cousin con's sisters boyfirends brothers mates girlfriends uncles best mates sons boss who is a toilet cleaner turned bikie 8-) . Respect bro :!:


And with that 80k drag car, exactly how much of that 80k has gone into the engine? 20k engine and 60k chasiss/suspension/body?
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