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Will this dodgy turbo idea work? 

 

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 Post subject: Will this dodgy turbo idea work?
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:19 am 
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hey guys, i wanna turbo my I6 falcon some day (dont we all :lol: ) and i was thinking/daydreaming about the mods that i'd have to do and all the welding, mounting of the turbo is pretty clear to me but i have two questions:

the first is how do i go about running oil lines to the turbo or more to the point, where do i tap into to get the oil feed?

secondly, as the factory MAP sensor cant read boost (at least i think it cant) would it be possible to just move the point that the MAP sensor joins to the plenumn to infront of the turbo intake so that it still gets vacuum and not boost? this would mean that the ECU wouldn't know anything different, just that the car sucks a hell of a lot more air. i was also planning to use the stock fuel stuff (at least for a while because i'm not after massive power gains, i'd like about 180-200rwkw because responiveness and minimal lag are more important to me). so will this work and if so, does anyone know what sort of power levels can the stock fuel gear support (people experience on N/A or boosted)

 

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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:37 pm 
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the oil feed comes directly from the sump im pretty sure
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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:57 pm 
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no oil drain goes to the sump directly under the first spark plug. the oil feed line feeds it from the main oil line which just happens to be the same line that i have my oil pressure t-piece put in. hope this helps.

 

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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:06 pm 
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Yeah... oil feed comes from the oil pressure sender. Remove the oil pressure sender/switch and fit a t-piece. One end of the t-piece supplies oil to the turbo, the other end connects to the sender/switch (but i'd recommend getting a real gauge as the electronic ones are fricking useless).

Oil return line is tapped into the sump.

Idea with the MAP wont work. You NEED the MAP sensor to be reading the air pressure in the manifold. Readings from before the turbo will be of little use. Yeah i doubt the stock MAP/ECU is capable of reading +ve manifold pressure, but will prob just max out at 0inches vac....

Just put a rising rate fuel pressure regulator on that will increase fuel pressure exponentially with boost. This is what i run on mine - but EEC has also been tuned to suit forced induction. Timing needs to be addressed. You could probably retard the base timing via the dizzy, but that will make for s**t cruise/low load performance.

Seriously - you can try these things but it will be very hit an miss.

My stock fuel gear is right at its limit and makes 170rwkw (with 8 injectors). But see dyno graph in my gallery to get an idea of how quickly boost brings the power on... above 140rwkw for most of the run...

 

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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:47 pm 
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ok the stock map sencer does read + pressure up to 12psi, the fuel system will be for upto about 150rwkw but if u put a good fuel pump in and a 2:1 regulator and ajust the reg to about 50 - 65psi of fuel pressure at idle it should be good for near 200rwkw. u will need to retared the base timing bak to about 4*. and i wouldent go any higher than 8 psi boost. if u set it up like the above u will have not alot of power untill 2500rpm depending on turbo, wich might not be wat u want. but if u wait the program to fully ajust the eec will be avalible so and that would make it a lot easyer and with a good tune it will give u better bottom end power. if u go to eec tunup way then u would still need the reg and fuel pump, plus i would also get bigger injectors as well

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:19 pm 
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fritzz wrote:
ok the stock map sencer does read + pressure up to 12psi, the fuel system will be for upto about 150rwkw but if u put a good fuel pump in and a 2:1 regulator and ajust the reg to about 50 - 65psi of fuel pressure at idle it should be good for near 200rwkw. u will need to retared the base timing bak to about 4*. and i wouldent go any higher than 8 psi boost. if u set it up like the above u will have not alot of power untill 2500rpm depending on turbo, wich might not be wat u want. but if u wait the program to fully ajust the eec will be avalible so and that would make it a lot easyer and with a good tune it will give u better bottom end power. if u go to eec tunup way then u would still need the reg and fuel pump, plus i would also get bigger injectors as well


i wouldn't be looking at running anymore than 8 psi i reckon (i say that now of course :lol: ) because my engine is old and stuffed. i just wanna get the turbo working then i can layout more money as i get it on injectors, rebuild, etc. as far as the turbo not making power below 2500, as long as it really starts picking up from there then it ok because i have 3.89 diff gears so my gears are really short, if i get heaps of off idle grunt i'll prolly destroy my clutch pretty quick. and as far as waiting for the EEC tuning stuff, thats not a problem because i have to wait for a job and money first :cry:

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:20 pm 
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A much better a*** fuel solution is the plumb in an extra injector, wire it inline with one of the stock injectors and adjust it with an adjustable fuel reg.
The stock ED timing map is good for 200wkws, just retard the dizzy, it works.

The VL turbo boys have been doing this extra injector mod for years... its rough, but no where near as dodgy as pushing the a*** out of the stock little injectors.
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:34 pm 
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but if he waits for the tuning progam, as he said he is going to. he can run bigger injectors

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:33 am 
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thats if his motor lasts long enough
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:48 am 
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CHEF wrote:
thats if his motor lasts long enough


hey chef, do you mean another stock injector or another one from anything? i've got a CFI intake sitting here, that injector would be able to pump some fuel eh :lol:

as for the above quote, too-shay :roll: ...

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:05 pm 
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Yeah, but one big enough for the extra fuel, like a RX7s1 secondary... dunno about the ea injectors, Id imagine them to be big though
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:30 pm 
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CHEF wrote:
Yeah, but one big enough for the extra fuel, like a RX7s1 secondary... dunno about the ea injectors, Id imagine them to be big though


Ea CPi are good for 100hp each
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:31 pm 
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so how would i go about wiring in an/some extra injector(s)? do i just add it in to the exisiting loom:

current setup (three injectors per "line")
Image

extra injectors (2) (one extra per "line"):

Image

 

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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:40 pm 
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pretty much... just check injector resistance. I dont know what the stock injs are or what the eec will drive so you'll have to do some homework here.

You have to wire the neg of the injector to the Hobbs presure switch and set the switch for the boost you want it to start pulsing at...

Lots of trail and error is needed here so dont expect mirracles. You might get lucky and have the right amount of fuel on boost or you might make it super rich then lean...

A few hours spent playing on a dyno would be money well spent
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:20 pm 
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use the jaycar injector controller rather than a hobbs switch so that you have control over the duty cycles
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