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Aftermarket TB's? 

 

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 Post subject: Aftermarket TB's?
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:25 pm 
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Are there many aftermarket outfits that sell the 65mm TB's like on the EL GT? Or is it best to start searching through wreckers for one?

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:54 pm 
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there are plenty of places that sell 65mm throttle bodies.. but if you want one that has tickford wings or something etched into it - it might be easier to get it done yourself.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:07 pm 
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No I'm not worried about logo's or badging. Just trying to find out who sell the 65mm TB's ( including the MAF I hope ) other than Ford with their ridiculous over pricing.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:08 pm 
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PM MrLandau on these forums (or look here http://forums.fordmods.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=26) for the MAF, he does the Pro-M ones which are better and cheaper than the Ford MAFs, I think he also may do throttle bodies but I am not sure. Otherwise, www.vpw.com.au do BBK/Edelbrock throttle bodies.
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:58 pm 
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Vic wrote:
Ford with their ridiculous over pricing.
to right there
overheard a retial price on a set of el thermos.... $850

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:26 pm 
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The 65mm BBK ones work out to $550 including the EGR
The full polished 65mm Accufab is worth a little closer to $600 including EGR

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:06 pm 
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I see.
Are there aftermarket companies that recondition TB's and do trade-ins?

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:06 pm 
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TBs don't generally wear so you probably won't find any reconditioned ones, its either new or from a wreckers. If you are just after a larger TB, then you may search the wreckers for a used AU one because they run 65mm and can be adapted to fit onto E-series V8s. Despite common belief the factory TB isn't a great restriction especially if you are running stock intake, MAF or heads.
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:48 pm 
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I might have an AU 65mm throttle body down the yard - can you wait for a few weeks until I get back there to pull it out of the shed?
Shane

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:34 pm 
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all this talk about throttle bodies has me thinking I want to play as well, I have what is apparently a hard to find EF GLi V8, it's an ex-chaser, I've done the Intake snorkel and pacemakers with sports exhuast systems mods, but that's about it as far as engine goes, I'm thinking next I should start with the intake side of things from the filter box back and go for improving the throttle body etc, so thinking along those lines what should be looking at ( I don't even know what the sizes I have are), I don't have alot of spare cash at the moment so, TBs and MAFs mods up to the plenum are about it for now (unless I can find a cheap plenum that would imporve things), heads etc later, I was even contemplating a functional shaker, is this possible on my car/engine, I reckon it would look tough and sound sweet with the intake roar, but have no idea how it would be plumbed in, thoughts on all above appreciated.

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:01 pm 
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znipa-x wrote:
all this talk about throttle bodies has me thinking I want to play as well, I have what is apparently a hard to find EF GLi V8, it's an ex-chaser, I've done the Intake snorkel and pacemakers with sports exhuast systems mods, but that's about it as far as engine goes, I'm thinking next I should start with the intake side of things from the filter box back and go for improving the throttle body etc, so thinking along those lines what should be looking at ( I don't even know what the sizes I have are), I don't have alot of spare cash at the moment so, TBs and MAFs mods up to the plenum are about it for now (unless I can find a cheap plenum that would imporve things), heads etc later, I was even contemplating a functional shaker, is this possible on my car/engine, I reckon it would look tough and sound sweet with the intake roar, but have no idea how it would be plumbed in, thoughts on all above appreciated.

Being realistic - whilst you have a standard HO motor the 58mm throttle body will probably work fine and not lose much (or any) power to the 65mm unit. Before you fit a 65mm throttle body you need to remove any upstream restrictions and in your case the standard 58mm MAF will become the bottleneck - a 70mm mass airflow meter would fix that. I would suggest underdrive pulleys as your next "cheap" modification because they are not dependant on anything around them and have been proven to make power. Putting a phenolic spacer between the upper and lower intake halves and blocking the EGR port will lower your intake charge temperature and therefore make more reliable power (ever noticed the 5.0 Windsors going "offsong" one the temperature warms up - try putting your hand on the upper manifold after a drive). Remember cool dense air = power. Thats why pods filters without shrouds make more power on the dyno with the bonnet up and a big fan in front of it - and make your car run like a 3 legged dog on the street.
Shane

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:20 pm 
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MrLandau wrote:
Being realistic - whilst you have a standard HO motor the 58mm throttle body will probably work fine and not lose much (or any) power to the 65mm unit. Before you fit a 65mm throttle body you need to remove any upstream restrictions and in your case the standard 58mm MAF will become the bottleneck - a 70mm mass airflow meter would fix that. I would suggest underdrive pulleys as your next "cheap" modification because they are not dependant on anything around them and have been proven to make power. Putting a phenolic spacer between the upper and lower intake halves and blocking the EGR port will lower your intake charge temperature and therefore make more reliable power (ever noticed the 5.0 Windsors going "offsong" one the temperature warms up - try putting your hand on the upper manifold after a drive). Remember cool dense air = power. Thats why pods filters without shrouds make more power on the dyno with the bonnet up and a big fan in front of it - and make your car run like a 3 legged dog on the street.
Shane


wow, such a knowledge base, what do I look for regarding underdrive pulleys, I assume alternator, water pump and powersteering diameters are reduced but where do I get them from and do I need a different drive belt given the distance it has to travel will be less, or does the auto tensioner have enough travel, and is there a howto/guide for the "Putting a phenolic spacer between the upper and lower intake halves and blocking the EGR port ", I have no idea where these are, because as you say, I have noticed something different/offsong when the temps creep up. I'm keen to follow any step by step you can point me to, I have 2 tech trades, so I'm capable, only thing is they are in desiel and most recently aircraft, oh and what am I lookiing at as a price for a 70mm MAF, and what is the size I have now, can you tell me the best way to find out, could be I already have one, you never know....

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:22 pm 
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MrLandau wrote:
Putting a phenolic spacer between the upper and lower intake halves and blocking the EGR port will lower your intake charge temperature and therefore make more reliable power (ever noticed the 5.0 Windsors going "offsong" one the temperature warms up - try putting your hand on the upper manifold after a drive).

Interesting about the phenolic spacer...

My desire for improving my air induction from the filter box back is currently limited by a complete lack of funds. Once the funds become available again in the future I will be able to continue on with changing the TB and dealing with the upper inlet manifold while walking the insurance tightrope, which is the reason why I'm slowly looking into TB's and upper inlet options right now - so that I'm ready to go.
:)

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:05 am 
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znipa-x wrote:

wow, such a knowledge base, what do I look for regarding underdrive pulleys, I assume alternator, water pump and powersteering diameters are reduced but where do I get them from and do I need a different drive belt given the distance it has to travel will be less, or does the auto tensioner have enough travel, and is there a howto/guide for the "Putting a phenolic spacer between the upper and lower intake halves and blocking the EGR port ", I have no idea where these are, because as you say, I have noticed something different/offsong when the temps creep up. I'm keen to follow any step by step you can point me to, I have 2 tech trades, so I'm capable, only thing is they are in desiel and most recently aircraft, oh and what am I lookiing at as a price for a 70mm MAF, and what is the size I have now, can you tell me the best way to find out, could be I already have one, you never know....

1. I sell March Performance & Ford Racing underdrive pulley sets that were originally designed for the 94/95 mustang but have been machined to fit the Australian waterpump and alternator. Here is a link which shows the Ford Racing kit being modified to suit our cars. http://groups.msn.com/LandauLTDhaven/50stuff.msnw The main thing you need to look at with underdrives is that they retain the original belt so you can get spares in the middle of nowhere, and they dont slow the waterpump and powersteering pump down to far which will cause damage. Both these kits are designed to use the original belt and only slow the waterpump down by 14%, power steering by 8%.

2. Fitting a Trickflow 3/8" phenolic spacer (around $120 - $140) between the upper and lower manifold is a fairly straight forward job. Take your engine cover off, undo the bolts holding the upper manifold to the lower in sequence (like you would a cylinder head). Put the spacer and 2 gaskets supplied in the kit where the original gasket sat, and bolt the upper manifold back on using the new bolts supplied - making sure to use the correct cylinder head style sequence and propper torque settings. Blocking the EGR (Exhaust gas recirculation) port is normally done with a welsh plug and some araldite. The EGR port is the small port that runs up the centre of the lower intake manifold.

3. The 70mm Mass airflow meter was fitted to the AU 5.0's Here is a picture of (left) HO 55mm E series MAF (middle) AU 70mm MAF (right) Pro-M 75mm MAF. http://groups.msn.com/LandauLTDhaven/50 ... hotoID=106
The HO MAF is very distinguishable by the big reduction in the middle section - the AU MAF has no centre depression but does have a big bar down the centre which hurts flow.
To buy a second hand AU MAF you are looking at around $170. You will need to undo the electronics (black box) via the tamper proof torx screws and fit the electronic's from your HO meter. this may make your car run a little lean because the electronics are not calibrated to the new airflow.
A Pro-M 70mm MAF comes complete with new electronics and is calibrated to the unique airflow charactoristics of the Australian airbox - unlike the Ford original. The centre bar is removed and the internals smoothed and flowed. The Pro-M 70mm will handle enough airflow for a 380hp motor.
Have a look at the "Extreme Velocity" commercial sponsor section for prices.

Shane

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:30 am 
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MrLandau wrote:
2. Fitting a Trickflow 3/8" phenolic spacer (around $120 - $140) between the upper and lower manifold is a fairly straight forward job. Take your engine cover off, undo the bolts holding the upper manifold to the lower in sequence (like you would a cylinder head). Put the spacer and 2 gaskets supplied in the kit where the original gasket sat, and bolt the upper manifold back on using the new bolts supplied - making sure to use the correct cylinder head style sequence and propper torque settings. Blocking the EGR (Exhaust gas recirculation) port is normally done with a welsh plug and some araldite. The EGR port is the small port that runs up the centre of the lower intake manifold.

Can you tell me a little more about how the phenolic spacer actually works within the upper and lower manifolds and how it interacts with the air flow? Also, would you happen to have any pictures of a phenolic spacer fitted or on its own? Very interested.

 

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