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 Post subject: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:54 pm 
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my oil pump is only doing 100 kpa at idle when at operating temp and if the oil light will come on and flicker, but is reading 200kpa with some revs. i suspect i need a new pump. what is the story with the oil pumps? i have read/heard not to use the hi volume type and stick to the standard one. also if you use the standard one there is a mod to the regulator to lift the pressure and someone like moroso did a kit for this purpose. whats the story?
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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:10 pm 
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If your going to replace the pump, take some bearing caps off too, to check condition of the bearings.......see if your wasting your time just fitting an oil pump.
Also, it helps to put 4 cutouts ( semi-circles of about 1/2" to 5/8" ) on the oil pick-up shroud.
If the sump cops a hit, you still get oil to the engine.

 

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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:18 pm 
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common problem with old worn out clevos, big end bearings tend to wear out.

So as said above pull one off, or at least see if you can shake the conrod around etc.

Is it making a knocking sound while idling? or mite not be at that stage yet.

 

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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:15 pm 
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no, it runs very smooth actually. about 70,000miles. drove it from Melbourne to Newcastle no probs. have changed heads and cam. put some cheaper oil in, ran on and off for a couple of hours to catch any crap i may/probably dislodged swapping things, and replaced it with penrite 20/50 LPG oil and a new filter and it seems to have started since then. wouldnt be something stupid like the oil or a dodgy bypass in the filter? i will buy a new oil pump and as i have to take the sump off i will check the bearings with some plastigauge. as a handy novice how much is too much? before we get too far from my original questions, any info on the Moroso regulator spring, good/bad? i have found it on their web site and it sets the pump up to approx 100psi. no price though. worth it or not before i put the pump in?
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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:23 am 
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crsmith wrote:
before we get too far from my original questions, any info on the Moroso regulator spring, good/bad? i have found it on their web site and it sets the pump up to approx 100psi. no price though. worth it or not before i put the pump in?


Is that Moroso spring kit part number 22850? If so, pm me. :D

 

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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:32 pm 
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I have altered oil pump pressures before by puting washers under the spring.
But I also modified the Mellings pump too, and the hydraulic lifters as well.
Also with this, drilled the holes bigger in the valley, and cleaned all the rough from the front near where the dizzy mounts so heaps of oil can drain onto the cam chain.

 

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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:00 am 
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thanks for the advice on the bearings. we may have cracked it. i removed big end cap and a main for inspection. Not good. the big end was down to the copper but the crank journal was ok, BUT while the main bearing was the same down to copper, there is a raised lip that matches the oil groove in the main on the crank journal. Aagh! cant quite afford it at the moment and just a mongrel to sort. it will have to be done sooner or probably later, so is there any one in newcastle who knows about these 351m-400's without jerking me around or ripping me off that any one can point me at. it bugs me to do it but to keep it mobile, it might at least get a set of big end bearings to take out some of the slack until i can afford to pull it apart and get the crank done, and if i do that seeing i've done the heads it would be stupid not to give it a rebore and a set of pistons and rings, (the trans could do with a reseal and half the work done with the engine out) money, money. help please!!
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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:50 pm 
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crsmith wrote:
thanks for the advice on the bearings. we may have cracked it. i removed big end cap and a main for inspection. Not good. the big end was down to the copper but the crank journal was ok, BUT while the main bearing was the same down to copper, there is a raised lip that matches the oil groove in the main on the crank journal. Aagh! cant quite afford it at the moment and just a mongrel to sort. it will have to be done sooner or probably later, so is there any one in newcastle who knows about these 351m-400's without jerking me around or ripping me off that any one can point me at. it bugs me to do it but to keep it mobile, it might at least get a set of big end bearings to take out some of the slack until i can afford to pull it apart and get the crank done, and if i do that seeing i've done the heads it would be stupid not to give it a rebore and a set of pistons and rings, (the trans could do with a reseal and half the work done with the engine out) money, money. help please!!


OK, cheapest way out, new bigend bearings, a new oil pump And put some washers under the pressure relief spring ( 2 would do ), and use some Penrite HPR 30 engine oil.

 

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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:42 am 
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thanks CJH. worth doing mains? it would have to wear a grove in them before they touch the rest of the surface, but would still be a little tighter once worn in? seeing i've got the pump off, worth getting a high volume?
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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:08 pm 
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crsmith wrote:
thanks CJH. worth doing mains? it would have to wear a grove in them before they touch the rest of the surface, but would still be a little tighter once worn in? seeing i've got the pump off, worth getting a high volume?


Yeah, go the high volume, but leave the main bearings as they are, you'll do more damage with new bearings on that type of wear on the mains.
When you get the new pump, dismantle and clean it, and smear the gears in vaseline.
I have found new Mellings hi-vol pumps to still have casting sand and swarf in them.

 

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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:31 am 
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blew this one! under other advice, fitted mains as well, but did the oil pump (strip, vaso etc). primed with drill, took a bit to start (bloody LPG) but had good oil presure while cranking 500 kpa. ran and idled for a while and warmed up, oil pressure dropped to 150 kpa, should've taken notice! drove around the block and then out to 100k area. oil light started to come on more then before. drove straight home and stopped. started a bit later and damn things got a knock and the oil pressure is near zero. thought i heard a whirring noise while running, so probably spun a bearing. anyone got a (not worn out for $500 as i already have a worn out one in the car!) short block handy or know anyone who has worked on the 400's not too far away from Newcastle? they are different enough in the rotating assembly that a bit of prior knowledge would be a benefit. in saying that any good cleveland mech worth his salt should be able to do it. already done the heads and hopefully the cam wasn't the one that spun, although it's probably more expensive to machine the rods/main caps. really only need a good short block for not stupid money, or at least a reasonable rebuild. still got to pull it out of the car and crack it open, just lost inclination knowing whatever it is it will cost me money i needed for something else.
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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:52 pm 
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Just pull down the one you got, and start again, and do it right, the first time.......previous post beckens the ol' saying.....I told...........etc..... :|

 

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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:11 pm 
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i think it was me that wrote it too! it was was worth a lash. it may have been running okay but i didn't like that oil light flashing, i've done enough fitting of other things to be worried about it. i got the parts at a VERY good price too, so it was only my time that was screwed. i can gaurantee that when the crank gets done the pistons if needed will get sorted. i am sourcing prices at the moment to make sure i don't get ripped off.
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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:47 pm 
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clevlands have a bad reputation for over oiling the top end the oil cant get back quick enough threw the small galleries so putting a Mellings high volume pump in it will only make the problem worse although you can take of your intake manifold and attack the return oil holes with a die grinder and open them up if i remember correctly there is 4 holes down the centre of the block and won near the dizzy you can see pics in my gallery of what we did to my clevo block...

 

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 Post subject: Re: cleveland oil pump
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:06 am 
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i think i've seen that somewhere. the holes were opened up as well as grinding the little dam from around the front hole by the distributor? isn't there something to do with the cam oilers as well? i know moroso do a kit with grub screws with holes in them to keep pressure but reduce flow, as well as some restrictions down by the crank. there is a method i believe that consist of driving roll pins in to do the same thing. worth it or misguided? i still have the old standard oil pump i took off, so i might pull that apart and see what thats like. with a bit of TLC it may be ok to put back on.
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