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Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust 

 

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 Post subject: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:31 pm 
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Hi all,

I need some advice, I'm building up my exhaust now, i have the headers, and i'm getting an X-pipe in from eBay, nice unit link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... K:MEWAX:IT

Now i need the mufflers, i'm going with 3 hotdog/bullet mufflers on each pipe, with the straight through hotdogs: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Summit-R ... 5ad776092c, would it give enough back pressure the engine needs? Or should i go with these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BULLIT-2 ... 1e5a8bf200

I'm thinking of combo's like 2 of those "Bullit" chamber hotdogs behind the headers, then 4 of the straight through glass packed hotdogs after that?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:03 am 
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So... whats wrong with a decent brand high flow muffler?
Dont know why you want backpressure, and those Bullit things look like a fkn stupid design with a massive restriction in the middle!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:40 am 
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just 2 of these... cheaper, easier and will sound better!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAGNAFLO ... 45f1418099

 

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:01 am 
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krisisdog wrote:
So... whats wrong with a decent brand high flow muffler?
Dont know why you want backpressure, and those Bullit things look like a fkn stupid design with a massive restriction in the middle!


I don't know what other mufflers sound like, i don't want to spend the $$ and find out it sounds s**t/not quite what i wanted. The reason i was thinking of the hotdogs is mick's system on his 'Lane, sounds really deep and has a growl when the boot is put down.

I thought the 302's needed a certain amount of back pressure to run better?

Steady ED wrote:
just 2 of these... cheaper, easier and will sound better!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAGNAFLO ... 45f1418099


That looks good, so just two of those each pipe, nothing else? I don't want drone at all, and it's got to be deep and growly when the boot is put down, i hate that new big bore sound all those generic commodore/Falcon systems have

 

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:29 am 
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I don't like the look of that x-pipe mainly because you need to do two bends to get into it from the headers...would be better if the inlet/outlet pipes where at 45 degrees rather than parallel.

A general rule with mufflers is the larger the muffler body the greater the reduction in low frequency sound because the longer wave length gets trapped in the larger body which, is why hot dogs tend to chop off only the high frequency. This explains the deep note you get from them.
I prefer to chop off a bit of both and have made great sounding system of just two stainless Lukey ultraflo mufflers and 2.5" stainless pipe with an x-pipe although I see no benefit of an X over a H.
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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:58 am 
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XR9UTE wrote:
although I see no benefit of an X over a H.



from what i understand an x-pipe will give you more of a raspier note where as a H pipe will give you more of a deep growl type note

 

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:27 am 
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Here's one perspective of x-pipe vs. h-pipe I found:

Car Craft Magazine wrote:
For any performance exhaust system, some type of crossover connecting the two sides of a dual exhaust system is important because it acts to balance the two banks of the engine. The common H-style crossover is good at balancing sound pulses between the two halves, but does little to promote scavenging because the exhaust gases tend to follow the path of least resistance, which is straight through each pipe rather than taking the 90-degree turn through the H-pipe into the other half of the system. In an X-pipe system, however, where the two sides of the system intersect, the gasses have no choice but to intermingle as they pass through the junction. This promotes improved scavenging effects by smoothing out uneven exhaust pulses from the engines firing order. It also helps quiet down the exhaust, resulting in a mellower, less raspy tone. According to Magnaflow, the faster acceleration of the gasses through an X-pipe causes them to flow in a linear fashion parallel to the walls of the tubing rather than tumbling. This laminar flowing gas is much quieter than tumbling gas, resulting in an exhaust tone up to 8 decibels quieter than a traditional H-pipe.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:41 pm 
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I've tried an X and H on the same exhaust system on my old 351W XR and found no difference in sound...but that was just my car. Then I tried a 3" single with Genie Tornado muffler...f**k loud but not as good performance wise as a twin 2 1/2".
I've seen dyno tests where the difference between X and H pipe was about 2hp. The consensus was that although the theory of the X-pipe was that it should produce better scavenging, this scavenging was dependant on how close to the engine it could be situated and it can't be as close as an H-pipe. Combine that with the fact you need substantial bends to get the exhaust to an X-pipe meant that it's advantages were largely lost.
This was on 600 odd hp Mustang. On this Mustang the best X-pipe was from Dr Gas and it was rather large with an almost perfect cross and it's believed it was purely the size and flow that helped it get 2hp over the rather sinple H-pipe it was up against.
Btw they also tested between stock cats(with enlarged in and out tubes), no cats and high flow cats and the difference between all of them was about 1hp.
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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:26 pm 
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XR9UTE wrote:
I don't like the look of that x-pipe mainly because you need to do two bends to get into it from the headers


How about this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAGNAFLO ... 45f1416d6b

Or i also spotted a factory Shelby GT500 one with 45 degree bends at the header side and then straight pipes towards the muffler, only $25

 

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Yeah that one looks like the Dr Gas one Ive seen.
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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:32 am 
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XR9UTE wrote:
Yeah that one looks like the Dr Gas one Ive seen.


I had a look on the car of where it's meant to go, so i see what you mean about pipe angles.

Heres my planned system, let me know what you think and how it will sound.

Extractors (No cat's, pipe instead)
2.5" stainless pipes from headers to X-pipe
2.5" stainless pipes from X-pipe to a pair of Magnaflow SS 5"x8" 14" body mufflers
2.5" stainless pipes from mufflers to rear of car.

How will this sound? Will it drone at all? The magnaflow mufflers are straight through perforated mufflers, not those straight through louvered ones. Would it be wise to stick a hotdog on each pipe somewhere after the magnaflows or won't it matter?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:13 am 
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it'll have a bit of a drone being twin 2.5".
whats done to the car, if you aren't gunning for 250+rwkw i'd go twin 2.25".

 

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:22 am 
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U should have a resi on the rear so it wont have any drone and make sure u either use magnaflow mufflers or lukey ultra flow with the Magnaflow x pipe.

My choice is magnaflow as they make a nice note

What car is this exhaust for???

Steady ED is right in saying 2.25 for anything upto to a mild 302 so u get the best power and torque bottem-mid end.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Summit-R ... 4cede998d8

See if u can get ur hands on this in either 2.25 or 2.5 and get the measurements from pipe to pipe and see if it will work in ur car to meet cats and mufflers well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pypes-Pe ... 4cedea7e7a

 

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:09 am 
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The exhaust is for my LTD, i was thinking 2.5" would be too big, i can't seem to find any x pipes in 2.25" though.

No problems about building the exhaust as i have a contact at the local exhaust shop who will build any form of system for me. My headers are 2.25" at the outlet too. If i reduced the pipe on the x-pipe from 2.5 to 2.25" would it matter at all?

Ok so here is an updated plan:

2.25" stainless piping all round, twin Magnaflow straight through mufflers and twin summit glass pack resi's on the end... sound ok? Where abouts should the resonators be placed, as all the resonators that i have seen placed near the end of the exhaust (just under the bumper etc) sound crap at the pipe, not nice and crisp.

Oh and i'm not using any cats either, we lucky NZ'ers don't have to 8-)

 

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing Bullet/hot dog style mufflers, building exhaust
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:27 am 
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i don't reckon you'll need resi's with twin 2.25".
depends on your individual taste of course.
i think xh5lwepn has a soundclip up of his car with twin stainless 2.25" and 2 magnaflows somewhere. sounds preeeetty tough but a bit wimpy with no boost (i'm joking there :P)

you could get your exhaust joint to make a 2.25" x-pipe? 2 wide radius 90s with a join at the outside radius and just clean up the inside for any dags, any one whos got a drop saw and a welder would be able to do it.
i don't think having a 2.5" x pipe in a 2.25" system is a good idea from a flow perspective.
alternatively just do an h pipe like xr9ute suggested.

 

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