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 Post subject: EGR troubles
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:12 pm 
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ok, so i pulled my manifold all apart and then put it back on 2day,
took some measurements ect and also ground a bit that sticks out away so its easier to get at that back bolt...

neways, i broke the gasket between the TB and the EGR spacer and water went everywhere,
so i was forced to take the gasket right off and bypass the water away from the EGR spacer all 2gether...

anyhow, a few other thing needed to be done, i tightened the fuel rain against the injectors too since it leaked everytime i touched it...

but now the car runs like crap!
feels sluggish down the bottom end, yet up the top it still loves to rev,
infact it rev'd futher than iv ever pushed it (just hitting the red line at 5500)

does anyone know what i might have missed?
or does it have something to do with the EGR spacer not having water going through it anymore?


any help with this would be great, thanks guys
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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:37 pm 
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The first thing you should do is put the coolant lines back on....They are for Cooling the hot exhaust gases that enter the intake.
If you haven't hooked up your EVR or EVP properly you will likely see a reduction in midrange torque.
But look for basic stuff first like vac lines left off etc.
Why did you take the intake off?
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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:46 pm 
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why does the au egr not have coolant lines?
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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:32 pm 
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jaysway wrote:
why does the au egr not have coolant lines?


Simple AU's don't have EGR.
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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:40 pm 
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XR9UTE wrote:
jaysway wrote:
why does the au egr not have coolant lines?


Simple AU's don't have EGR.


so i could replace an E series egr with the AU "egr" spacer with no dramas other than putting out a fault code?
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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:27 pm 
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ok thanks mate,
I didn't realise what it was for,
Would it be easier in the short run to just disconnect and plug the vacuume line that goes to the egr valve?
I will eventually put it all back to the way it was, but right now theres no gasket there
Also, there were 2 reasons for taking it off, the main reason was me trying to see how water was getting into my manifold... It wasn't sealed correctly apparently...

Also, whats the vac line thats right under the manifold? Its bigger than the rest, cos its not on very well, i was forced to 'jerry' it on for now till i can get under the hood again...
My mate thought it might be abs?
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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:07 pm 
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You will also need to block off the pipe that feeds the coolant to the E series EGR. Au heater rails don't have this little pipe so thats a quick fix. Run an AU EGR spacer and that will eliminate the coolant problems, but you will need to tap some bolts into the spacer to hook your EGR valve up (non functional but the ECU doesn't know this), otherwise your ECU may spit some fault codes out.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:09 pm 
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Yes you can plug the vac line that goes to the EGR valve...that way it won't move.
There are several vac ports under the intake. The biggest will be your brake booster port(facing rear). The second biggest(facing the front of the vehicle) is the Canister Purge port.
ABS does not use engine vacuum.
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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:10 pm 
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XR9UTE wrote:
Yes you can plug the vac line that goes to the EGR valve...that way it won't move.
There are several vac ports under the intake. The biggest will be your brake booster port(facing rear). The second biggest(facing the front of the vehicle) is the Canister Purge port.
ABS does not use engine vacuum.


cheers mate, i unplugged the vacuum and the electrical plug too, seems to be ok but still not quite right,
might plug that electrical plug back up incase it was important...

one of these days when i finish work and theres at least one auto shop still open ill go buy a gasket kit and fix it all up

the Canister Purge port is the one i was wondering about,
i know there'll be issues with vacuum leak if it comes of,
but will the lack of vacuum to the canister purge cause any problems,
its held so far...
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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:25 am 
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On an HO intake the best way to eliminate EGR is to keep everything to do with EGR hooked up, but put a cup-plug (5/8" I think, whatever comes in the frost plug kit for a windsor to cover the rear lifter oil feed cross-over) into the lower intake EGR hole in the middle of the intake. The cup-plug may need to be expanded slightly for a snug fit. The water supply to the EGR spacer then becomes a non-issue, and because the EGR solenoid and position sensor still works, the computer doesn't throw a fault code.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:09 am 
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ACtually it will still throw a code because the EVP wont have responded to the command from the EVR.
Does it matter? no. but removing EGR is going to hurt your fuel economy and so is removing the CANP.
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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:19 pm 
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for now im running it with everything disconnected from the egr, yet to get a fault code...
Its temp of course till i get a spacer to put my other manifold on...

Thanks guys
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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:22 am 
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If you re-read my post you will see that the computer won't throw a fault code because I suggested that everything is re-connected (the EGR vacuum solenoid still controls the EGR valve, so the EVP sensor still feeds back correction operation to the computer). The only thing that is "disconnected" is the actual supply of exhaust gas, and the computer doesn't know this. It only checks that the EVP sensor signal changes when the EGR valve opening is changed. Hence no codes are generated. This is verified by 5 years of operation on my car.

EGR inhibition (without fault code generation) should not hurt fuel economy as the computer runs on closed loop for most of the time. If a lean condition is encountered the injector pulse is lengthened to compensate. These pulse width adjustments are then stored in the computer as "bias factors" for future reference ie. the computer learns the new pulse widths necessary to keep A/F around the correct set-point. Open loop (WOT) closes EGR so no effect there either.

The only way EGR elimination can have an effect on economy is if it isn't diabled correctly (eg simply unplugging the EGR vacuum control solenoid or blocking the EGR vacuum feed hose) then the computer logs fault codes and adopts a "conservative operation strategy" (limp home mode) which usually means dropping a heap of ignition advance. Yes, this does hurt fuel economy.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:00 am 
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xafalcon wrote:
If you re-read my post you will see that the computer won't throw a fault code because I suggested that everything is re-connected (the EGR vacuum solenoid still controls the EGR valve, so the EVP sensor still feeds back correction operation to the computer). The only thing that is "disconnected" is the actual supply of exhaust gas, and the computer doesn't know this. It only checks that the EVP sensor signal changes when the EGR valve opening is changed. Hence no codes are generated. This is verified by 5 years of operation on my car.

EGR inhibition (without fault code generation) should not hurt fuel economy as the computer runs on closed loop for most of the time. If a lean condition is encountered the injector pulse is lengthened to compensate. These pulse width adjustments are then stored in the computer as "bias factors" for future reference ie. the computer learns the new pulse widths necessary to keep A/F around the correct set-point. Open loop (WOT) closes EGR so no effect there either.

The only way EGR elimination can have an effect on economy is if it isn't diabled correctly (eg simply unplugging the EGR vacuum control solenoid or blocking the EGR vacuum feed hose) then the computer logs fault codes and adopts a "conservative operation strategy" (limp home mode) which usually means dropping a heap of ignition advance. Yes, this does hurt fuel economy.


yea, i understand most of that,
but iv just unplugged the wires and vacuum and theres no fault codes.

last EGR i played with was on the XF, and i fixed it with a hack-saw...

xafalcon wrote:
On an HO intake the best way to eliminate EGR is to keep everything to do with EGR hooked up, but put a cup-plug (5/8" I think, whatever comes in the frost plug kit for a windsor to cover the rear lifter oil feed cross-over) into the lower intake EGR hole in the middle of the intake. The cup-plug may need to be expanded slightly for a snug fit. The water supply to the EGR spacer then becomes a non-issue, and because the EGR solenoid and position sensor still works, the computer doesn't throw a fault code.


you wouldn't happen to have any pictures would you?
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 Post subject: Re: EGR troubles
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:54 am 
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Actually EGR is operational from medium to heavy load therefore a large proportion of EGR operation is not compensated via closed loop control but this is not the reason for a lack of fuel economy.
During EGR the EEC advances the ignition to compensate for the reduced oxygen in the contaminated(EGR) inlet charge and reduces the fuel pulsewidth to suit. Combined with the re-use of the unburnt fuel in the EGR inlet charge you obtain a fuel economy advantage.
If you block the flow of EGR and let the EEC think that it's still flowing the EEC will; still advance the spark and reduce fuel, however the extra oxygen can now result in too lean a mixture which, combined with increased spark advance can cause detonation.
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