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just got off the phone to acl and they couldnt give me enough info to be sure i was getting the right rings, none of the ring sets mention a shallow top ring (which mine has) only a shallow oil ring.
Acl race series dont suit and the mahle or other acl ring set didnt have enough info on ring land depth to be definitive. So i rang them and they couldnt tell me for sure that they had rings to suit my pistons...
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| Scaffy |
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Buy some forged pistons then and throw a heap of NOS at it. At least then you'll know which rings to get too.
_________________ Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20 |
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| xafalcon |
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I'm not sure what's going on with ACL. When I spoke with them about a year ago they were VERY helpful and knew exactly what I was talking about. Perhaps I got the only knowledgeable staff member, or maybe you got the only one who didn't know their stuff.
Try giving them the ring groove measurements, and asking for a set of rings to suit. They should then be able to confirm (or deny) suitability. They need to know width and depth. So long as the ring depth is less than the ring groove depth it is OK. Width needs a few thou clearance. Failing that, get the Ford OE part number (I think it's F6TZ-6148-AA, but confirm with your local dealer) and Google it. You should get some aftermarket options, but probably all US origin. Most will take VISA and will post so cost may be similar to a local purchase. Another option is to machine the ring grooves in your pistons for a more conventional ring pack. I did this many years ago for an EF piston. Cost was reasonable (under $100) and was done with pistons still fitted to the rods. Try Sealed Power E458K as a starting point for this option but check your piston groove measurements and compare before buying.
_________________ XA Faimont 351C, AU2 XR8 Manual 5.0, DA LTD 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang 5.0, EF2 XR8 Manual, EF2 Fairmont Ghia 5.0, AU3 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Manual Ute, TE Cortina 5.0 Manual, DU LTD 5.0 soon to be manual |
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A year ago is no good to me, i was on the phone to the acl dude for 3o mins and had all the specs on hand and gave them all to him and like i said he couldnt help me,the only set of rings listed that had ringland depths didnt suit, i did everything you suggested.
Ford stopped selling the rings in feb this year and dont have a listing anymore. So like i said in my first post the rings are hard to get, and they arent common or easy to find and the ringland depths arent included information on all ring sets. I appreciate all the help but the original reason for this thread was the fact that i found it hard to get rings and nothing has changed at all  Of course there is gonna be some of these rings somewhere in the world but that is not friggin easy to get is it. There will be no strokers or talk about new pistons, id love a part number of these rings so many people are telling me about that are so easy to get ??? If id wanted to go to a machine shop or buy in from the states i wouldnt have done this thread(i thought that was obvious),I dont have cash to burn thats why some of the replies make me wonder 
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xafalcon wrote: Here are the ring groove depth measurements I took. 1991 assembled EB 5.0 V8 and 1999/2000 assembled Explorer 5.0 V8. Measurements are in mm. Top Middle Oil EB TRW 4.72 4.72 3.32 Explorer 4.44 4.85 3.40 How can i get my pistons machined to suit rings that suit an eb piston when the second ringland on the au piston has a deeper groove, and also on the oil ring groove? The oil ring isnt shallow like everyone keeps saying its slightly deeper(quite obvious) the only rings i could find listed for these pistons mention a shallow oil groove?
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| Scaffy |
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Easy there Shannon, don't start getting your knickers in a twist. Just having some fun. As previously stated, buying from the States doesn't mean you need to be loaded. You usually end up saving money. This may seem like a dumb question, but if you use file-fit rings, do they have to sit flush on the inside of the groove? Or can there be some clearance?
_________________ Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20 |
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| xafalcon |
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Mate, I've given you a heap of help and pointers on this, but if you don't want to listen to experience that's your call. I've only hot rodded maybe 20 of these engines in the last 3 years. Go ahead and re-invent the wheel.
_________________ XA Faimont 351C, AU2 XR8 Manual 5.0, DA LTD 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang 5.0, EF2 XR8 Manual, EF2 Fairmont Ghia 5.0, AU3 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Manual Ute, TE Cortina 5.0 Manual, DU LTD 5.0 soon to be manual |
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xafalcon wrote: Mate, I've given you a heap of help and pointers on this, but if you don't want to listen to experience that's your call. I've only hot rodded maybe 20 of these engines in the last 3 years. Go ahead and re-invent the wheel. I went and did what you said and it didnt work, what else do you want me to say. How bout you have a listen to me and my feedback to your advice which i followed. i agreed with you on the depths but said acl couldnt help me, wheres your issue? Knickers in a knot haha
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I guess im just ungrateful because i did exactly what i was told and didnt get the same outcome xa falcon got???
xafalcon you went on and on about acl so i called them and they couldnt help me, every set of rings you mentioned dont have specs on depths.the guy at acl was an ex engine reconditioner and knew his stuff and did everything to help me, but unfortunately he couldnt. Is that my fault? I do appreciate the specs you gave me because noone else knew them, but the advice didnt pan out. Dont get the s**t on because your advice didnt come good, it was worth a crack and i tried it. This whole thing has now done a 180 to me not listening and i should just buy some from usa because its not that hard, thats why i got jazzed. If im so wrong about finding a set in aus i would love to know what part number set of rings in aus will definitely suit my motor, and around we go again..... I hate to be wrong like everyone else but id be relieved in this case, found out mellings do a 70 buck oil pump and thats awesome(i was stupid to listen to ford,covs,repco and veale) but this has just been all frustration with the rings, no guarantees from anyone about correct fitment and a lack of specs on so called suitable parts makes it HARD(key word for the whole post)
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| Scaffy |
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green car wrote: Knickers in a knot haha I think the phrase used was "knickers in a twist"  Anyway, on a more serious note, have you tried getting in contact with some workshops other than Ford themselves? I'm not too sure who to go to, but people who specialise in Fords. Maybe give BPT or Ierace a call and see if they're able to help out? It's a long shot, I know, but it may help? edit - was just looking at the Summit site and there's no mention of ring depths there at all. From what I can see, piston rings seem to be very generic. It looks like you've got 6 choices of ring thickness for top and second rings and 2 choices for oil ring thickness. As far as the ring gap, is that something you set yourself upon installation?
_________________ Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20 |
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Its the ring depth that is the important part, the thickness is top to bottom thickness.
The ring gap is governed by how worn the rings are and the size of the bore with normal rings, file back rings are the only ones i know of that allow you to set your own ring gap. I personally wouldnt attempt it  I have looked at the summit/usa option but the fact is i would most likely order the wrong set and theres a few to choose from,you have to know exactly. I wouldnt want to be sending back stuff if they would even let you  Scaffy i think ill just go to my machinist and see what he can do, he said the most expensive ring set is 170 but he needs the pistons to make sure they fit. i think id rather know for sure the rings will fit when i put the motor together and i think its good insurance to have a machinists input who builds motors all day long.
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Going to the machinist definately sounds like the way to go then. Even if you have to get something that is up near that 170 mark, at least then you know you're getting the exact right set.
I understand the difference between the thickness and depth of the rings. It makes me wonder though, why they don't list the depth on the specs when they list just about every other measurement imaginable, when depth is so important?
_________________ Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20 |
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Its character building to say the least
Also not having a good computer typing manner(if thats a term)makes it hard because i know i sound harsh but i do mean well, and im only trying to do stuff within my limits, which maybe i should explain better next time When i went to high school, the whole school only had about 8-10 computers and they were only equivalent to commodore 64 spec, makes it hard to communicate over the interweb thesedays
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No skin off this big nose over here buddy! Hehe
Make sure you update with the brand and part number you end up getting from your machinist so we can close this baby out! 
_________________ Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20 |
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Most definitely, if and when i get the rings to suit i will chuck the brand and part no up to make it easier for others
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