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Ford DL LTD 5L hard to start when HOT 

 

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 Post subject: Ford DL LTD 5L hard to start when HOT
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:38 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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I still have issues with the car...i've added another earth lead but no change. Im thinking could be alternator even though it appears to have been replaced at some stage. The charge voltage when running is only about 13.7 Volts so with air-cond, lights on, the battery may not have enough power to turn over the engine (with extra compression when hot).
Engine turns over ok when cold but starter motors does spin longer than it should to start the engine. I wonder if the regulator is faulty on the alternator? Took it to auto electrician and engine will crank faster with a jump start.
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:31 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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recon you are looking at a new starter. when you try to start when engine hot you get heat soak in starter and it draws a lot of amps to kick it over. new starter should fix.
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:14 pm 
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Nope its not that simple, new starter and battery been fitted already!
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:27 pm 
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When you checked the charge rate did you check the voltage at the alternator ?Fords are notorious for voltage drop between the alternator and the battery .If you have a difference of .2-.5 volts then you should fit a heavier duty cable as well as your original cable.6mm cable will do the job and do not forget to have a fusible link fitted to protect your wiring.Also if you are using the original start cables then you might want to fit bigger ones .If you want to test the start cables use jump cables to supplement your originals and see if it starts better.good luck
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:49 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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I have a NL Fairlane as well which has all original cables but with a factory alternator. It has a charge rate of just over 14volts.
I have used a jumper cable to check if starting is easier but didnt really notice any difference. The LTD has a no name brand alternator (95amp) and not sure when it was fitted.

So basically i've tried a new battery, starter motor, changed starter relay, used an extra engine to chassis earth cable, checked/cleaned battery terminals. Alternator/regulator may be last thing to change?
Battery seems to loose voltage to crank engine after long drive using accessories, lights etc. Ok for local short trips.
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:30 pm 
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Well it would seem that by a process of elimination you will eventually drop the spare wheel and drive a new car over the top of it .shame that the autoelec did not do his job but some things just don't happen in a logical sequence.13.7volts is the minimum one would expect in a efi car and the norm was 14.2 volts and now the norm is 14.6.Alternators were 35 amps and 55 in an airconditioned vehicle with twin headlights.Now every vehicle has 85 amps at least and some are running 110/120 amp alternators as standard.
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:52 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Have you had the ignition timing checked? if it is to advanced it can cause that problem as well. Sounds like you have been through all the normal things. good luck
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:50 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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No timing makes little different, if only it was as simple as that! definitely something electrical. Maybe the wiring is faulty somewhere. I might try an extra cable from starter to positive on battery. This is really pissing me off :twisted:
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:50 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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i would be getting realy p****d of to what a headack. that sounds like a good idea running the extra cable. i am just trying to think out of the box. dose the car lack power and or economy. if so you could look for blocked exhaust. i know really long shot. have you tryed to run cold water on starter when it wont start proberly. thats right you replaced starter. worth try.
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:19 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Weird thing is when i check the charge rate of alternator first thing in morning, its around 14.4 Volts but after a drive when everythings hot its at only 13.7 volts. I stopped engine when i got home today and when i went to crank it soon after, guess what it was slow to crank. I jacked up car and removed the positive cable from the starter motor and looking closely at the terminal lug with a torch it appeared to be quite dirty with corrosion. I cleaned it up with a wire brush and reconnected it. The engine cranked over at a good speed. Have to go for a decent drive later to see if that was the cause (not a good contact to starter motor). Lets find out. Stay tuned!!!
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:13 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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hoppfully you got it. let us know how you go.
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:09 pm 
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Hi, went to different auto electrician today, he advised the possble starting problem unlikely to be alternator as the battery would be flat by now and not starting the engine when cold in the morning. He suggested could be the extractors putting too much exhaust heat onto starter motor and causing it too turn over slowly. A heatshield mounted on the starter solenoid would be advisable. I saw my brother and he gave me a late model 'Holden' starter motor heat shield. I've modified it to fit and again wait with anticipation too see if this will fix the problem once and for all.
When i think of it my old school XC 351C has extractors and when its hot, the starter motor turns slower as well! I have a good feeling about this new remedy! Stay tuned folks.
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:48 pm 
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hey rob,when i worked for ford we had a starter heatshield kit for the xe v8s, think part number was XE 9N455A you just used a hose clamp around shield to the solenoid.we also put a relay in the trigger side of the solenoid. seemed to help when hot
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