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Gas VS petrol performance?? 

 

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 Post subject: Gas VS petrol performance??
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:29 pm 
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Is there any powerloss with duel fuel compared to petrol only or straight gas?
I drove a 5.0L with duel fuel on gas and it did not have the pick up compared to my EB.

Would extractors & snorkel make a difference & can extractors be mounted to a Duel Fuel setup??

The Car I want to buy is a DC LTD & I figure putting the extractors off the EB into the DC.

 

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 Post subject: BUMP
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:34 pm 
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Bump

 

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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:39 am 
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Have a read through the LPG forum!
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:50 pm 
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I had a rebuilt 351 Clevo put in and ran on straight petrol for a few months. I then converted to straight gas. I lost a little power but now after a few minor mods it has surpassed the performance that it had on petrol. Running on a combo of gas and petrol is no good because you have to tune the car as a compromise between both and you never can realise the full potential of both fuel types. If you go gas - go Straight gas. You can get good power from gas if you get someone to work on your donk who knows there stuff ! Alot of cowboys and "know it alls" out there who actually Dont know jack schitt!

 

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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:26 pm 
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Yeah, in my 4L a little in the higher revs, quicker off the line, much better economies of scale :)
matt

 

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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:22 am 
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Hey there again, some more info:
Your air intake and spark plugs and leads are crucial areas when getting power and economy from lpg.
Try adding a cold air intake (CAI), modifying your airbox to allow more-cool air in, see this guys idea http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=56193
Keep inmind, where does the water go, easily overcome and good food for thought.

Intake could use an aftermarket filter, doesnt have to be K&N though, anything washable (high cfm) will give you the best value.
Cheap pods, not great but better then stock and half the price if bought right, will show an improvement.
Keep it clean, if its not washable, wave an air compressor over it every month! Not too close as you can damange the filter material.

Get some high temp plugs and quality sheilded leads, of course you need to balance 'cost' against 'gain'. Replacing plugs and leads that are still 'good' is not a viable idea.

Every few months check the gaps in the plugs, when taking off your plug leads make sure you 'twist' them slightly as this relieves alot of pressure on the cable itself (thank you to the gentleman on here who told me that!)

A tune, if required should be performed after all these mods have been done, as lpg requires a tune after any change to your air intake.
You need to keep good fuel / air mixtures, otherwise you can potentially turn your engine into one big giant blob of hot metal.
Depending on your engine and how serious you are about running straight lpg, an oil lubrication system may be a good path for engine longevity. If your game, like me, try water injection!
Keep ontop of all of these and you'll have a great setup.

You have the ability to remove your fuel tank, whether or not its worth it, as you may need petrol one day if lpg is playing up. You can save yourself a bit of weight here, maybe replace it with a smaller tank (10Litres if you can get it?)
Dont run too low on lpg, if you get down to empty you will hear a BANG and your air box, exhaust and maybe some piping will need replacing ($2-300 damage) cut a hole in one of your intake pipes and fit with a tight fit 'plug' that is attached by a string something, so if it does happen, you save your intake as it blows out with the extra pressure!
Hope that helps, thats all i think you will need to know.
Matt

 

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it can be reliable and cheap,but it wont be fast
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Last edited by -GAS-MAN- on Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: BUMP
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:27 pm 
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Hey There,
I have a XD wagon with 302C, single rail box, 3.23:1 diff and able to carry 140 litres of LPG in one fill.
The under bonnet mixer is a Gas Research system. When I rebuilt the motor I had to run it on pterol for the first 5,000km and the converted it over to LPG. The power increase was noticeable and the acceleration was reaaly smooth compared to petrol.
I had the dissy regraphed and was able to put about 14 degrees of inital timing into and the power of the mark was really awesome.
I used to tow a speedway car on a trailer with it and it would pull all day like there was nothing. Especially with the 3.23:1 diff. Cheers
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 Post subject: gas
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:43 pm 
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You can definatly get gas to out perform petrol if its in the hands of someone in the know.

Its all about the setup and tune, only use petrol to warm the car up.

 

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 Post subject: Re: gas
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:53 pm 
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MICKYYYY wrote:
You can definatly get gas to out perform petrol if its in the hands of someone in the know.

Its all about the setup and tune, only use petrol to warm the car up.


Indeed. There is a mob over here doing injected lpg with good results.
They got a SS ute into mid 13 secs with just the conversion and tune.

 

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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:58 am 
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There are a couple of tricks here that can make a difference. The two biggest performance problems on LPG are compression, and Timing. You can address them both by going straight gas.

If you need to run both, and you *dont* have an EF 6 cyl, you can probably use one of Jaycars Programmable Timing Kits to have 2 lots of timing. Performance should be great.

Injected LPG is amazing : Installed with no other mods will often get better than petrol performance.

Ive had 2 different systems : the OMVL Dream21 (not bad, not great), and the GTI system (not in production, in Development) and I have to say that the GTI stuff left everything in its wake. Pity its not commercial yet.

Ive heard that EuroGas is the best system in Aus at this time.

Nigel
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 Post subject: plg
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:27 pm 
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You can speak to Goff and sons in blacktown as he is magic with lpg

Contact Martin 9671 2199

 

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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:55 pm 
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:28 pm 
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I recently had my NC converted and can honestly say that the loss of power between LPG and Petrol is minimal and it starts first go every time on LPG. I was meant to take it back to be retuned after 1500k's but I don't think I will bother at this stage as it run's great. Here is a couple of pics of mine to give you an idea of what the DC will look like after conversion. Very Busy!! Oh and I have extractors and it all fits in nice and snug. Will consider the straight gas injection when I want to turn the tank into a drag car! 8-)

 

 

Attachments:
File comment: Tank Fitted in Boot. Still plenty of storage in the boot + smaller items behind the back seats!
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100_2158 (Custom).JPG [ 112.36 KiB | Viewed 79 times ]
File comment: Concealed Filler
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100_2157 (Custom).JPG [ 128.63 KiB | Viewed 76 times ]
File comment: Gas gear shoe-horned in!
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100_2150 (Custom).JPG [ 193.29 KiB | Viewed 95 times ]

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:41 pm 
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Very neat setup you have there mick. I agree with you 100% with the power difference(or lack or)between gas and petrol. The EFI windsor was almost designed with LPG in mind, more so than the common 4L sixes.

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:21 am 
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I have an EF 5L with extractors, high flow cats, single 3" system, Crane 2040 Cam and it is on Gas injection. Cost me $4200 to have the gas installed (in WA the gas rebate is $3k so it is not a problem).

The cam is too big for the standard computer to deal with, (once used 1/4 tank of petrol in mcdonalds drive thru!!!!), it is about to get an aftermarket ecu, but as it is the LPG is making about 20% more horsepower. The gas injection experts reckon same power as petrol but a gain in torque. From what i have seen land cruisers gain about 10% more hp and lots more low down torque. I expect once it is sorted that the gas will probably make about 2-3% more hp and 10-20% more torque than petrol.

From what i have been told the old mixer style injection gives about 10-20% power loss. (same as converting your car to single point injection really), if you look at how much money you spend to get 10% more HP, the gas injection is really worth it.

At the moment it is costing me about $13/100km spirited city driving, i have a mate with a standard ef 5L who reckons he is spending $20/100km.
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