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head gasket change advice 

 

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 Post subject: head gasket change advice
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:00 am 
Oompa Loompa
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my cars done its head gasket on passenger side. spark plugs on that side were wet and was water in oil when i drained it. im not really that experienced with cars, but have managed to get most of the components off so far - down to the heads. Does anyone know where i can find some simple instructions, or other posts that cover how to change the head gaskets? ive looked but found nothin on the v8s (i have a basic idea of how its done) or know of any things that I really need to watch out for so that i dont end up with even more problems once I am putting it all back together. any advice much appreciated

at the moment the plan is just to take off the heads and replace both head gaskets, check to see if its warped, clean everything as well as possible, then put it all back together.

Its an EF futura 5.0 btw

thanks
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Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:16 am 
Tyre Shredder
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go to your local library and hire a manual, or buy one :D
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Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:03 am 
Oompa Loompa
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I do have a max ellery manual, but its fairly brief and im just going thru the engine dismantle part as thats as close as it gets to helping me, Im doing this without removing the engine from the car so it seems to be a bit different for me than that, may go to libary and look for other manuals or something.

Does anybody know if it is possible to get the passenger side head off without disconnecting the aircon, power steering completely? im probably going to just undo the bolts holding them all on then slide it fowards enough to get the head out then just support it in the car till the head goes back on. i dont have the tool to get that bastard power steering pulley off so im hoping theres a bit of give in the pipes attached to it so i can slide that bolt under the pulley fowards enough. I think im in enough over my head to have to piss around disconnecting airconditioner components so hopefully im right?

also, is it worth getting all the manifold cleaned (or any other bits) at a garage, as theres a decent build up of s**t on it.

last question, anyone know a good place out eastern suburbs (doncaster) that could machine the heads, clean the manifold etc for a good price? pretty strapped for cash at the moment even without the car trouble. :cry:
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Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:21 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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VIC, Australia

also, is a torque wrench completely neccessary when putting the car back together or can i do without?

been quoted
new radiator (it blew too) 190 bursons
top gasket set, 220 bursons
heads machined 80 bucks and manifolds cleaned for 30 from a place called CW engines?

sound about right? called ford too, they want 350 radiator, 505 for gaskets and dont machine heads. makes prices i was quoted seem too good to be true, but from past experience sounds about right.
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:22 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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its a must to retorque your heads mate i got a 1/2" drive torque wrench from repco a motorgard one 60$ and guarranteed too its not a tradesman one but seems okay i know a guy who works there he reckons theyre better than the powerbilt ones....... make sure you retorque them after youve done a few runs and let them heat up then cool down :D
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:52 pm 
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CW engines off rooks road?
if so, they're not a bad machine place *well they were great about 8 yrs ago*

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:16 pm 
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After you tension the heads, grab an old 1/2 extn bar or something similar (must be strong) and a large mallet. Give each bolt 3-4 heavy blows in the sequence that they were tensioned and then retension. You will be amazed at how much more you will get out of them, especially if the bolts were given a light coating of oil below the head before assembly.

This is the way that my mechanic did it and after 4000km when we went to retention again one bolt mooved 1/2 a pooftenth, all the rest were fine. :D

Remember there is a sequence to follow to take the heads off aswell as put them on.

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:27 pm 
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dont go to stupid with it.

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:42 pm 
Smokin em up
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Im not saying flog the guts out of the bolts, just give them enough to unbind them from the heads as this is essentially what is happening when the engine heats up and cools down.
Ok, well its not all that causes the headbolts to be at differing tensions after a few heat/cool cycles but its a big part. The difference between just bringing the bolts up to tension leaving it compared to giving them a good tap is a fair bit, we got 1/2 a turn give or take on all bolts.

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:49 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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alastair ive pulled heads off in an EL.. got up to the heads, but i then had to pull the motor out to finish the job coz of another C**k up. unrelated to heads tho.

firstly, you will need new headbolts.. and yes you want a tension wrench, if just for the headbolts. also get something that will clean out the threads.. its like a tap but not quite.

for the powersteering/aircon bracket.. remove two the bolts you can get access to.. for the third one behind the pulley, using a bunch of elbow grease, swing the assembly back and forth with someone putting pressure on a spanner for the last bolt.. mite need to tap the bracket with a hammer just under where the coil is(was). once the bolt is cracked then you should be able to slowly undo it and the bracket will come forward.

once its off, the aircon and power steering lines will hold it roughly in place, i just used an ocky strap over then under the bumper to pull it towards to passenger headlight so it was out of the way.

i got arp moley lube(as i had ARP bolts for the heads) for the dry(long) head bolts, and pipe sealant for the short bolts that go into the water jacket. i just used a tension wrench, lubed up the bolt threads, heads, and washers, and torqued to spec.

so long as u clean the surface of the block well, and the heads you should be ok. im not sure that being cast heads they would need much machining anyway. i used felpro head and intake gaskets.. felpro say no head retorque required.

speak to a mechanic about-

-a tap style thing to clean out block threads(will make torque readings laot mroe accurate)

-what lubricants to use on the head bolts that go into the waterjacket, aswell as the other ones.

otherwise you should be good to go.

 

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Last edited by -clampy- on Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:55 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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mac this is on a windsor with little 7/16" bolts not 1/2" im guessign your method has been used with success on a 351clevos etc.. 1/2" bolts no doubt.

these readings below may not apply, as this refers to alloy heads, but heres a quote from AFRs website anyway to show the difference between 1/2 and 7/16

"Torque to 70 ft/lbs. for 7/16" bolts or studs (289 or 302) or 100 ft/lbs. for 1/2" bolts or studs (351W) in three or four steps following the factory tightening sequence. Then tighten the long (upper) head bolts or studs to 80 ft/lbs. (7/16") or 110 ft/lbs. (1/2")."

my fear would be tightening them up too much.

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:09 pm 
Smokin em up
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Ah yes, I see your point there. :wink: Wasnt aware the bolts were a different size.

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:11 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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poor little windsor 302. the runt of the ford v8 family.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:06 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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hey thanks for the tips, the old mans getting a torque wrench from work today, i have the heads off already, they are at the shop, which is CW engines in beech road nunawading, they seem like a nice bunch of people, getting the heads machined and crack tested as well as the lower manifold cleaned out.

Ive heard not only from this thread, but also from a family friend that getting new head bolts is a damn good idea, so im thinking i will do that, and make guide pins using the old ones. is this worth it, or are they pretty cheap anyway?

I got a manual which i plan to follow for the putting back together of the car. Its instructions for doing the heads is as follows;

1 Place head gaskets in positoin over dowel pins on cylinder block
2 Carefully guide cylinder head into place over dowel pins and gasket.
3 Coat threads of cylinder head bolts with LOCTITIE 243 sealant and
tighten with finger
4 Tighten head bolts to the folloing sequence and in the order shown.
9 5 1 3 7 10 6 2 4 8
tighten first to 65Nm, then secondly to 85Nm, then finally to 100Nm.

5 Install valve assembly after covering the components with a light coat
of oil. Push rods must be fitted in their correct order. then rocker arms
and bolts making sure they are aligned correctly and torque bolts to
30Nm.

ITs got also how to get the rest of the manifold etc on also, i can copy that out if anyone wants me to do that as well.

After hearing people say to put oil on the head bolts, not sure wether oil or loctite would be the best option. will probably go loctite is my thoughts.

I konw a few of these Q's may seem a bit stupid, but;

do i need to put any kind of sealer onto the gaskets? pretty sure i dont, but just wanna be sure.

A family friend has also said that its important to konw how much has been machined off the heads in case it affects the pushrods, is this likely to be an issue?

The book never mentions anything about re-tightening the head bolts after a few runs, but it does sound like a good idea, so how long should i wait before doing this?

Thanks for the help
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:28 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: EF II Futura 5.0

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

4000Km till i retorque them :oops: thanks for that!

the manual says i can clean out the threads in the block using an air hose, so i might just jack something up using a dive tank and a piece of hosing, should do the job :D

couple of days time or so, i might need to ask about the rest of the engine installation too, as ive said (a LOT) i do have the manual, but any little hints or tips to make my life easier much appreciated. any more advice on what product works best for lubing up the bolts for the exhaust and intake manifolds?
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