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LPG for EB-ED 

 

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 Post subject: LPG for EB-ED
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:51 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Would I loose any performance at all if I go LPG?
Im tossing up between straight gas or duel fuel?

 

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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:26 am 
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you will loose power through duel fuel. straight gas will be much better if your willing to set it all up with a good gas mixer. check out
gasresearch.com.au
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:27 am 
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you will loose power through duel fuel. straight gas will be much better if your willing to set it all up with a good gas mixer. check out
gasresearch.com.au
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:35 am 
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There is no definitive rule that says you will loose power through dual-fuel. Some of the *available* injection systems now do not introduce any change to the way petrol runs, so no change there.

www.gas-injection.com is the most exciting thing Ive run, and thats because it uses the ford ECU not an aftermarket one. The ford engineers did a great job with their programming, and it just works.

The trick with Dual Fuel though is to get a conversion that doesnt require a fuel-start. You also have to maintain petrol in the fuel system and run it regularly or it doesnt work. If you go straight LPG you dont have to worry about these things any more.

Nigel
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:55 am 
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i think it is unlikely you will lose power with the 5.0L. my eb uses a landi renzo injector emulator system. the "injector emulator" is just a computer controlled valve that adjusts the fuel delivery to always give the correct air fuel ratio as determined by the ego sensor. The motor is stock so far except for a 2 1/2" cat back exhaust & a thermofan conversion. It's never been near a dyno, but at wakefield park i get the same lap times & road speeds on lpg, bp ultimate & caltex vortex. Also, running petrol with or without the mixer ring in place has no effect on the stopwatch or the top speed.

i guess it just depends on what your "planned mods" are, but if they involve changing cam, manifold, heads etc then lpg will benefit from a longer & split duration, long well breathing inlet runners & 10:1 ish compression, as would any windsor, petrol or lpg. what mods are planned?

 

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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:08 pm 
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rebuild to get rid of blow bye & eithier a edel brock manifold or GT40 setup or possibly a hairdryer

 

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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:17 pm 
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Ben_Daui wrote:
rebuild to get rid of blow bye & eithier a edel brock manifold or GT40 setup or possibly a hairdryer

lpg is the way to go on a forced induction motor, it can produce incredible power from forced induction without intercooling. all the so-called 'disadvantages' of lpg are overcome to the point where they become advantages with forced induction. lpg takes about 8% of the room intended for air in the manifold (according to Gas Injection Technologies website) but this becomes all but irrelevant with the intake charge is sped up with boost (or cam duration is increased a little for n/a). PROPANE (not that stupid butane/propane mix most lpg companies use) can handle higher compression or higher boost than even the best 98 pump fuel can. dual fuel wont be a problem as long as you can adjust the boost (blow off/pop off valve perhaps with a supercharger, wastegate with a turbo). Run 98 unleaded with low boost, and use unigas (i'm told by someone who works there that butane is not used in unigas, meaning octane ratings well over 100, more like 118) and mild boost. just dont use gra or a vaccum controlled system. use an electronically controlled (ego sensor reliant) system like the landirenzo in my eb http://www.landi.it/eng/prodotti/scheda ... gpl05.html for dual fuel (or the gti as gas only when it becomes commercially available http://www.gas-injection.com/). once the eeciv has had a chance to learn what is goin on, it will run nice & idle smoothly.

 

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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:30 am 
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Not really wanting to hijack this thread but sam, do you know if the 5.0L use the same LPG ecu as that of a 4.0L? I have also looked at the possiblity of LPG on my wagon adn I've found an Impco set up from an ex taxi wagon.

 

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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:49 pm 
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banarcus wrote:
Not really wanting to hijack this thread but sam, do you know if the 5.0L use the same LPG ecu as that of a 4.0L? I have also looked at the possiblity of LPG on my wagon adn I've found an Impco set up from an ex taxi wagon.

no definitley not. 6 & 8 ecu share eeciv design, thats it. the ex taxi impco setup may work, i dont know much about them. i suspect that it is a vacuum fed system though where the vacuum generated by the motor draws in the appropriate amount of gas, with the eeciv doing everything else.

My eb uses the stock 1DGA EECIV (1991 5.0L auto, i changed nothing when i put in the t5) and when on lpg, the fuel function is taken over by the landi renzo lamda control http://www.landi.it/eng/prodotti/scheda ... 89000.html which intercepts and turns off the petrol injectors & starts feeding the gas, reading the throttle position & the o2 sensors to keep the stoichiometric mix under all conditions, effectivley making the system 'self tuning' (as long as the ego sensor is accurate). much more effecient than a vacuum system (my v8 has always used less gas than my dads 4.1L ute, including after re-tuning).
2 'disadvantages' (compared to petrol) are no lean throttle cruise (ie. when the eeciv activates the egr & replaces some petrol with exhaust to prevent detonation whilst lean) & the ignition map is still stock to suit 91ron. runs great though, much cheaper & like i said before, same speeds & times on track no mater which fuel (even without mixer ring while burnin 98).

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:47 am 
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The taxi I found has a separate ECU that would be similar to that of the landi renzo one on yours. I understand how they intercept the injector pulses and read the throttle position sensor and the o2 sensors and the one on the 4.0 taxi is the same. If I were to find the wires that its connected onto the 4.0 eec4 ecu and then join it up to my 5.0, then would it operate how it should ie, are they interchangeble on ford eec4s whether 6 or 8 cylinder?
thanks for your reply too sam :D

 

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