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Mild 5.0 - which path is best? 

 

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 Post subject: Mild 5.0 - which path is best?
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:39 pm 
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Hey there V8 gurus. :)

I am in the middle of gathering parts to mildly modify my 5.0 a little and have two slightly different paths in mind. What will definetly be going in is a set of GT40P heads and an Explorer or Cobra intake with a 65mm TB. These items will be ported and I reckon once that is done they will flow very very nicely compared to the stock setup. I would also like to attach some aftermarket roller rockers as well as whatever other bits are needed to complete the install such as new head bolts, new valve springs etc etc. Now just fitting those items is one path.

The other path would be to fit them and in addition, replace the cam as well ( perhaps the timing chain too? ). This would of course require the engine to be removed or at the very least, be tilted upward to be able to replace the cam etc. This would require much more labour but it is something I am considering as it will all get done at once with no currently forseen need to pull it open again.

I am of the opinion that the stock ECU and stock 19# injectors will be able to deal with the first path ( due to the rich fuel mixture Ford programmed into it ) but am not sure if it will have a problem with the second path with a mild cam. ( I have not decided what roller cam would be appropriate here )

In essence, I am keen to leave the ECU and injectors alone.

What do you all think? Can the ECU etc handle these mods or not?

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:45 pm 
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Remove the radiator, and i'd think the cam would slide out!

 

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 Post subject: 5.0 Build
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:26 pm 
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Same origional idea as you,my combo is in another forum 347 stroker.Pulling the motor out next week,3 to 4 weeks for machining,results will be towards the end of Jan if you can wait.

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:40 pm 
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Couldn't you just chip the ecu? Doesn't sound like you're going over the top.

Inkectors on the other hand I know nothing about so ask someone else!

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:52 pm 
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ECU will definately be able to handle those mods.

Thats the same kind of setup I'm going for in my XR8. Get some GT40 heads, GT40 uppermanifold, 65-70mm TB, 70mm MAF and cam. Thats it.

ECU should well and truly handle those mods. Anything more and I think its time for ECU swap.

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:29 am 
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my setup was ported e7's(which are now for sale), 65mm tb, 73mm maf, 2030 cam,rr's, edelbrock manifold, rebuilt bottom end, underdrives, thermos...

and i was still on 19lb injectors, had no worries for 176rwkw, did have a unichip tho but i reckon the ford computer would have been just as good... only got the s**t at 155 rwkw....

IMO do the cam as well, if you don't you will regret it, you are going to have the heads off anyway
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:41 pm 
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Putting hte heads and intake on without a cam change will be a bit of a waste, but you will be pushing the injectors to their max with the cam. An injector upgrade along with a matching MAF (although you will need a larger MAF with just the heads and intake anyway) will set you back about $1k and your EEC will be fine (stock EECs can actually handle huge mods, many 10sec cars run them in the US actually).
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:08 am 
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I was under the impression ( perhaps mistakenly ) that changing the injectors meant changing the stock ECU to another ECU like an XR8 one because the injector size was embedded in the ECU programming. Not correct?

I certainly would be stoked if I could leave the stock ECU in there. As for the injectors, I would imagine that the next step up would be the 24# set then?
What would be the right size MAF to suit a 65mm TB with 24# injectors and a stock ECU? ( I don't need a massive MAF just for the sake of it, just one that is suitable for this application )

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:08 am 
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There are two ways of going about it, the best way is to reprogram your EEC for the new larger injectors via a chip or edit. The second way is to use a calibrated MAF (like a Pro-M or C&L) which basically fools the EEC into maintaining proper AF ratios even with the stock injectors. You could also find an EEC from a vehicle with 24lb injectors but they are only EB GT, ED Sprint and EL GT's and you would also have to get their MAF too.
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 Post subject: Re: Mild 5.0 - which path is best?
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:13 am 
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Vic wrote:
The other path would be to fit them and in addition, replace the cam as well ( perhaps the timing chain too? ). This would of course require the engine to be removed or at the very least, be tilted upward to be able to replace the cam etc. This would require much more labour but it is something I am considering as it will all get done at once with no currently forseen need to pull it open again.

You don't to pull the engine out to do this... just remove the bumper, radiator and move the a/c condensor out of the way and you be able to slide the cams in/out.
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 Post subject: Re: Mild 5.0 - which path is best?
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:57 am 
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AUGhiaV8 wrote:
You don't to pull the engine out to do this... just remove the bumper, radiator and move the a/c condensor out of the way and you be able to slide the cams in/out.

Yeh thats a method I hadn't thought of. :)


EDXR8 wrote:
There are two ways of going about it, the best way is to reprogram your EEC for the new larger injectors via a chip or edit.

I'm not keen on adding a piggyback chip.
I have heard of the possibility of editing an ECU but am not aware of anyone who has done it to an EEC-5. If they had I would be very happy to talk to them!


EDXR8 wrote:
The second way is to use a calibrated MAF (like a Pro-M or C&L) which basically fools the EEC into maintaining proper AF ratios even with the stock injectors.

Would using this method provide enough AF to run all amy intended mods properly?


EDXR8 wrote:
You could also find an EEC from a vehicle with 24lb injectors but they are only EB GT, ED Sprint and EL GT's and you would also have to get their MAF too.

Yeh well if only someone had a EL GT ECU lying around, I'd buy it. Anyone know of a EL GT ECU up for grabs? :wink:

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:27 am 
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Not sure if an FBT ECU will suit but ive seen a few of these going around, here and FF. Also eBay.

They run the bigger inj. too.

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:20 pm 
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Is there much difference in other features / items between the Fairmont Ghia and the FBT / EL GT ECU's?
I.e. did the FBT / EL GT get other electrical or mechanical extras other than the 24# injectors or is that the only major difference with their ECU's compared to the Fairmont Ghia ECU's?
Would they just plug straight in with no dramas?
Does someone have an FBT or EL GT ECU and the means to copy it to another ECU? Does anyone have a genuine one for sale?

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:32 pm 
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The EL GT is basically just a more aggressive tune, along with programing for the 24lb injectors and EL GT MAF. Finding one may be quite difficult, you could get a chip (chiptorque etc) which can be programed to EL GT spec, although you can probably even go more aggressive.

Personally I wouldn't bother with the chip or EEC swap, just get some 24lb injectors and a 24lb calibrated aftermarket MAF, then no EEC mods are needed.
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:36 pm 
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Can I use 24# injectors and a EL GT MAF to do that?

 

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