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NC 5.0 hard to start. 

 

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 Post subject: NC 5.0 hard to start.
Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:58 am 
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Location: Melb
VIC, Australia

Have only had my NC back on the road for a couple of weeks, one problem i have found is that it is pushing oil out of the dipstick, this how ever is not the main concern, the main problem is that it is hard to start, turns over fine but takes a while to kick over, it does not even try to start while cranking just keeps cranking till it starts, or like tonight till the battery goes flat, once started it runs fine although twice now when leaving a set of lights it has stuttered, took my foot of the gas and it went back to idle foot back on and it drove like normal again, it is a 91 model so it dosnt have smart lock, just wondering what else it could be, have read that the module on the dizzy packs up, what are these worth new from ford or am i better off going second hand?

I mentioned the oil problem at the start but i dont think they are related since i would be assuming that it would make it run rough, once started it runs fine apart from those 2 times, just thought i would mention it just in case im over looking something.

 

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 Post subject: Re: NC 5.0 hard to start.
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:47 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 48

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Joined: 16th Jan 2005

Ride: EF Ghia 5.0

Location: Adelaide
SA, Australia

My EF was hard to start, but it was a faulty ECU. Try swapping out with a known good one. O2 sensors and dirty MAF hot wires can cause fuelling issues. There is plenty of info around here to help you out there.

Check the PCV valve at the rear of the lower intake manifold. Is the hose to the intake manifold cracked and does the valve rattle freely?

6 cylinder TFI modules will fit the V8 dizzy and run the car just fine. About $80-ish from Motor Traders etc. Probably $700 from Ford because they don't want us to buy their spare parts... :roll:

Mike

 

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 Post subject: Re: NC 5.0 hard to start.
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:49 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 31

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Joined: 20th Nov 2005

Ride: AU XR8 220 Manual

6cyl tfis fit the v8s? is this the same for the EF and EL ones? good to know given how much these can cost
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 Post subject: Re: NC 5.0 hard to start.
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:08 pm 
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Location: Melb
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according to this ebay listing http://cgi.ebay.com.au/IGNITION-MODULE-FORD-EA-EB-ED-EL-DIZI-MULTI-C-POINT_W0QQitemZ370299041622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_Parts_Accessories?hash=item56378af756 the same module covers XF - EL and its only $29.

Just pulled out the pcv valve and the ball is moving freely, had a feel around where it sits and there didnt sem to be a hole underneath where it sits, assuming it was full of gunk (and not being able to see in there) i got in there with a screww driver to dig it out, took a little bit and then i was able to pull some out, thats when i realised that it was a heavy metal weave and was probably some sort of filter to stop gunk getting into the pcv valve and into the intake.

Most of it i couldnt get out and it seems secure so i left it, cleaned the pcv with degreaser and put it back together, first start it died straight away, second start it sat at 1500rpm for a second or 2 and then dropped to 1000rpm so hopfully was its warmed up it will drop back down to normal, it also started easier so maybe its not the ignition module, i have a second hand one from a mates xf so if it still has problems i will swap it before i buy a new one.

 

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 Post subject: Re: NC 5.0 hard to start.
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:13 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Age: 42

Posts: 363

Joined: 7th Feb 2007

Ride: BLOWN 347 EB GT/ BF XR6 TURBO

Power: 345 rwkw

Location: eastern creek
NSW, Australia

hard starting dude in v8 are due to a leaking fuel pressure regulator pull the vacumn hose of the regulator and see if it is wet and if it smells of strong petrol as it floods the mainfold of petrol and the fuel lines dont hold pressure so takes long time of cranking to clear the fuel in the mainfold and bulid up pressure in the lines againalso replace ur charcoal canister aswell after u replace the pressure reg the oil comming out of your dipstick is the pressure from the built up fuel vapor in the sump from the fuel leaking pass your worn rings

 

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 Post subject: Re: NC 5.0 hard to start.
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:26 pm 
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The oil problem seems to be fixed now, no oil in the bottle i have hooked up to the dip stick tube.

Never thought of fuel, checked the reg and its dry with no smell of fuel, how ever i will put the fuel pressure gauge i have on my skyline on it and see if there is any problems there.

 

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 Post subject: Re: NC 5.0 hard to start.
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:34 pm 
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Just hooked up the gauge, the manual says it should be 200kpa(30psi) at idle, which it is, but also says it should be 250kpa engine stationary, not sure what that means, when i rev it the kpa goes to about 250(35psi), the alarming part is that it says that max pressure drop on engine shut down is 10% in 10 seconds, in the time it takes me to turn the ignition off (with arm through the window) and get to the gauge it is on 0, also when i turn the ignition on but dont start it reads 0, once started its up to operating pressure, im on my own atm so i cant see it while cranking and of course now that i dont want it to start its starting first go every go.

So now its looking like fuel which is the most likely fuel pump (was replaced about 2.5 yrs ago but the car has only done a couple of thousand k's in the last 2 yrs) or the fuel pressure reg?

Thanks to every one for there suggestions, you have been a great hlp.

 

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 Post subject: Re: NC 5.0 hard to start.
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:13 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EF Ghia 5.0

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There is a little plastic connector with two seals inside that goes from the pump outlet to the fuel line on the pump cradle. These can leak spraying fuel straight back into the tank instead of pressurising the line properly. About 3 bucks from Ford.

Mike

 

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 Post subject: Re: NC 5.0 hard to start.
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:00 am 
Stock as a Rock
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V8 Ghia Mike wrote:
There is a little plastic connector with two seals inside that goes from the pump outlet to the fuel line on the pump cradle. These can leak spraying fuel straight back into the tank instead of pressurising the line properly. About 3 bucks from Ford.

Mike

Will definately check that, the plot thickened tonight, it decided 95% of the time it wouldnt start and when it did it would only run for a couple of minutes and then turn off, noticed on the pressure gauage that when i turn the ignition i would get 35-40psi but once the fuel pump turned off it would go back down to 0, whilst cranking it would go up to 35psi but would not start.

Its really starting to piss me off now, as soon as i think i have found the problem it does something else that makes me think that i am wrong.

 

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 Post subject: Re: NC 5.0 hard to start.
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:20 pm 
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I have now changed the dizzy and module with a second hand one from the wreckers, after this the engine started at least and most of the problem has been solved but once in a while it is still a little hard to start and already once it shut down while driving, rolled to the side of the road and it kicked over first go, also replaced the fuel filter, cleaned the MAF and TB but now it idles at 1000rpm.

As for fuel, i dissconected the return fuel line and put it into a bottle, turned the ignition and the pressure went up as always and then back down after the relay turned the pump off, no fuel in the bottle tho which leads me to believe the the leak is in the pump assembly.
V8 Ghia Mike wrote:
There is a little plastic connector with two seals inside that goes from the pump outlet to the fuel line on the pump cradle. These can leak spraying fuel straight back into the tank instead of pressurising the line properly. About 3 bucks from Ford.

Mike

Pulled the fuel pump out and all i have is a fuel line and two hose clamps between the pump and the feed line to the outside of the tank, was told by a spare parts guy that there is a pressure valve inside the pump that has most likely screwed up and i need to replace the whole pump.

So all in all it has taken me 4 days and im back to where i started, i also just realised that after putting the pump back in that i forgot to put the sock on it, lets hope it lasts the couple of weeks till i get a new pump.

 

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 Post subject: Re: NC 5.0 hard to start.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:40 pm 
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Once i put the fuel pump back in its started holding pressure again, i assumed there was something in there that came free when i was playing with it, put the sock back on and the fuel issue is now fixed.

Since replacing the dizzy the problems are slowly getting worse again, now takes 2-3 attempts to start before it will kick over and is dying whilst driving more often.

Went to do the fault code check today and found that i do not have the plug, there is a hole in the fuse box where it is meant to be but nothing there, had a look behind it to see if some one had unscrewed it and tucked up the back, nothing there, also no sign of wires being cut as there would if it was removed.

Checked the manual and all reference to self check codes relates to EBII and ED, im assuming S1 didnt have this connector.

Now im starting to think ecu, or whilst typing this the tps has come to mind, if is no signal from the tps would that cause it not to start and if it lost signal whilst driving would that cause the engine to shut off?

 

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