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Should I change my cam? 

 

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 Post subject: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:24 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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I'm looking for a bit of advice. I've been looking at possibly changing my cam, but unsure whether it will be worthwhile. I've currently got the Trick Flow cam that came with the top end kit - http://www.summitracing.com/parts.aspx?sku=TFS-51402000

I've been looking at this Comp cam - http://www.summitracing.com/parts.aspx?sku=CCA-35-351-8
I like the look of the Comp cam as it has a broader operating range and I feel my current setup could do with something that kicks off a bit lower. The lsa on the comp is 114 compared to tf's 112. From what I understand with cams, the higher lsa drops peak power for a greater rev range and smoother idle. The tf has slightly more duration, whilst the comp has a bit more lift. Also, I'm using 1.72rrs. I'm thinking that with this cam, the car would be nicer to drive around town and carparks, etc, and the idle would be a bit more normal, as well as making some more power! :D

Anyone with plenty of cam knowledge, I'd like to hear your opinions.

Thanks

 

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:47 pm 
Parts Gopher
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i think you should buy the new cam and sell me your old one
but honestly i would think about a custom made cam seeing you have spent good money on the rest of your setup
i did a quick run on my desktop dyno and its says hp will drop 22fwhp and happen 500rpm lower if you use the comp cam. torque is pretty much the same so it will drive better and you may loose overall hp.
but thats a computer program go and see an engine builder
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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:54 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Cheers for the reply mate. What program is it that you use? Is it readily accessible? I was thinking about custom cam, but don't really know where to start. I'll have a chat to my mech when I'm at home, I guess, but if anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. Thanks

 

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Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:50 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Chad, that cam is the exact same cam my mates running in his AU XR8 with 165's.
Once his cars back on the road with this trans i'll organise a spin in it for ya to see what you reckon.
His pulled 302rwhp on Simons dyno and has managed 13.5@ IIRC 103mph.
Plenty more left in it if he could drive it off the line properly.
IMO i dont think it'd be worth swapping to the Comp one.
Just charge the f**k ;)

 

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:13 pm 
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isnt it matched to your heads and intake?
With slightly less duration and more lift it would be pretty similar in performance and you might not be happy with it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:30 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Swap the 1.6 RR's back in that came with your top end kit. That will make the cam work a little lower in the rev range and you don't have to pull half the motor apart to do it. But looking at the specs, if the 1.6's don't make it small enough you're almost back to a stock cam profile.....

Switching from a 112° to 114° lobe separation will be almost unnoticable on the same lobe profile. A wider lobe separation has draw-backs. They have lower efficiency and are more likely to have piston to exhaust valve clearance issues.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:18 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Thanks for the replies guys. Well, it looks like, for the time being, I'll just leave this cam as it is. A whole lot of time and effort for what would probably be very little gain. And if there was none, I'd be mightily p****d.

I don't know about going back to the 1.6s because it ran a hell of a lot worse with them than it does now, not that it runs poorly now, just at low speeds she's a bit moody and requires a lot of work on the clutch. Mind you, I tuned it myself when the 1.7s went in which is probably the reason it runs so much better! Haha. One thing though, when I changed the rockers, I was told it'd be a good idea to upgrade the springs, which I think now was not the right thing to do. The originals were somewhere around 360lb/in (single), while the new ones are around 440 (dual). I've read that too much pressure can rob power, but I think it would be meagre. Is it worthwhile changing springs back or just leave them as is?

Jeff - I won't be spending the money on charging before the bottom end gets done, gearbox, brakes, suspension, etc, etc, etc. Although, I do have a wet kit sitting in my garage, waiting to go in. :D

 

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:06 pm 
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What sort of lift have you got at the moment?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:14 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Vic wrote:
What sort of lift have you got at the moment?


He'd be up around .528" on the inlet and around .540" on the exhaust with the TFS1 and 1.7's.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:23 pm 
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Hmm, not enough for a TFS2, especially on a stock ECU.
I'd say your heads would need to be upgraded to be able to benefit from a bigger cam as well as ECU.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:19 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EL XR8, '08 Mondeo XR5t

Power: 205 rwkw

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

What do you suggest in terms of ecu, as I'm currently running a tweecer?

The TFS2 would fit with the 1.6s, but I'd definately run into trouble with 1.7s. I know someone on here had the TFS2 with stock bottom end, just can't remember who.

All I was hoping for was a bit better drivability on a day-to-day basis and sneak a bit more power to try and hit the 12s NA.

I think I'll just leave the big girl be...

 

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Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20

When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:49 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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You will need to put a smaller cam in for better driveability but of course it will make less power.
Thought about advancing your cam timing to bring the power on earlier, may help a little and its free.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:36 pm 
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The tweecer is fine Scaffy and your top end is quite nice but if you are using GT40P heads then that'll be the current bottleneck holding up any further advances in power & torque.
Perhaps consider upgrading your heads first which you can then follow with an appropriate cam - which is a combination you can create to still be streetable / driveable with much better grunt.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:38 pm 
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The heads are trickflow as is the rest of the top end kit

 

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 Post subject: Re: Should I change my cam?
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:47 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Yep, the heads are 170cc Twisted Wedges, i wouldnt worry about changing them.
Lightweight the car for 12's Chad ;)

 

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