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V8 cam question 

 

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 Post subject: V8 cam question
Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:49 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Just bought myself a set of ported GT40P heads with 1:7 roller rockers and am doing a cam change at the same time.

In buying these heads I was offered a Trickflow Trackheat I (TFS-514020000) cam for $350 (good price?), and was wondering if the stock ECU would handle such a cam and how it would compare to the 2031 I was originally considering. Also would a vernier timing set be necessary for this cam, and the 2031 for that matter?

Cam specs are:

duration @ 0.50" 221 intake/225 exhaust
cam lift .312"/.319" (intake/exhaust)
valve lift with 1.6 rr .499"/.510" (intake/exhaust)
lobe separation 112 degrees

Characteristics: good idle, strong midrange power, aftermarket intake, heads and headers recommended, requires modified mass airflow. compression ratio 9.0:1 to 10.5:1

Those specs are from the trickflow website.

I also have a 65mm throttle body and a 75mm MAF which came of the explorer and f series, and explorer manifolds are being sourced.

As for changing the cam, is it easier with the heads off? What are peoples recommendations for the ease of cam change? Removing the engine or tilting the engine to slide the cam out?

Thanks all

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:14 pm 
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rollmaster timing chain and gears should work well, cam should slide out without moving or tilting engine just have to remove front bar and raidiator and condenser.

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:18 pm 
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Firstly $350 isn't bad but it isn't cheap either, they are around $370 new. The TFS1 is a great cam IMO, it will work with the stock EEC but thats about the largest you would want to go. Idle is a bit lumpy and sounds really tough, but still ok for normal street use. Couple of isses I see, firstly do you plan on running the 1.7 ratio rockers witht he TFS1? With 1.6's the TFS has 0 degrees overlap @50th, with 1.7 rockers you will have a few degrees overlap which will lead to a rougher idle. Secondly, the 75mm F series MAF isn't a direct swap MAF, it will work but you will find you will have lean WOT unless you plan on some sort of EEC mods, but with this combo you will probably be looking at 24lb injectors anyway so I assume you are going to do some sort of EEC mod/chip anyway.

As for changing the cam, personally I just remove the engine. You can do it by removing the radiator, condensor etc (dont think you need to tilt the engine), but I still find it easier with the engien out. Heads on or off doesn't really matter IMO, the lifters will come out with the heads still on so what ever is easier for you. Oh and yeah a good timing chain like a rollmaster should be installed with the cam, a multi-keyway one will allow fine tuning to degree in the cam but it's not generally needed as most people install these cams straight up.
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:52 pm 
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Thanks for that, might try and bargain a bit with the cam then, get it down a little.

Will the overlap cause any stalling or just inconsistent idleing? I do plan to use the 1.7 rockers with the heads. Would a rising rate fuel reg help in this situation to squeeze a bit more out of the stock injectors?

At the moment I just plan to get it all up and running on stock injectors and standard EEC, and eventually go wolf 3d v4 and larger flowing injectors to suit supercharger, but will be a fair while down the track.

Am I able to do this or should I look at a not so wild cam, maybe the 2031?

Cheers

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:12 am 
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Even with the 2031 cam you will be pushing those stock injectors really hard, and I would imagine that you still will be running too lean. You really need to look at some larger 24lb injectors and either a matching MAF or some sort of EEC mod (chiptorque or unichip) otherwise you will be asking for trouble IMO. A rising rate reg won't help, they are for forced induction but an adjustable reg may be a short term fix (not ideal but you can sometimes get away with it).

As for the 1.7's with the TFS1, there are plenty of US guys that run that combo, but its not the best for boost when you get the blower. It should still idle fine for street use. As with any aftermarket cam though I would carefully check piston to valve clearances seeing you will be running around 550th lift and about 227@50th duration on the exhaust side, a little less on the intake. Stock GT40P valves may just be ok but if they are the larger valve tickford versions, you will be very close.
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:31 am 
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Change the valve springs!!! Trust me....Fit some doubles in there.. Roller cam ramps open very quick..Valve springs are not expensive either...
Ford springs have an issue of breaking with this much lift and doesn't do your valve gear any good either...Atleast 24Lb injectors and decent maf and you'll find tuneing won't be an issue...
Talk to Pete about eec tuneing...
http://www.icenet.com.au/~pie/
;

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:24 am 
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The heads are only slightly ported, they are from a TE50 stroker and are only 20,000kms old. The heads already have double valve springs so thats an advantage.

From what I understand if I get a new MAF calibrated to 24lb injectors and get the 24lb injectors, then standard EEC will cope, or if I decide to keep the MAF and upgrade injectors, then upgrade of EEC is necessary?

Thanks for you help guys

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:56 am 
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Just another quick question...should I look at 24lb injectors or would say 30 or 32lb do the same job? I guess in saying that I definately will need an upgrade EEC.

Any idea how much a set of 24lb injectors and a unichip will cost? My guess is around $500+

Cheers

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:55 am 
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Now I also will be changing my intake manifold and going the GT40P path and will be installing some aftermarket 1.7 roller rockers ( yella terra? ) as well. I'm pretty sure that just the change in lift with these heads and rr's will be far greater than my current stock setup so if I was to change my cam;

1. what sort would be appropriate without going over the top where piston to valve clearances and similar issues would become a danger? ( I just don't want to fiddle / customise anymore than I need to )

2. which brands make these roller cams? What are their model numbers?

I remember EBXR8380 saying not too long ago that our Windsors use hydraulic roller cams and as I understand them, they can be an expensive purchase so this is something I want to have a good look into before I spend the money.

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:29 pm 
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offyaguts wrote:
Just another quick question...should I look at 24lb injectors or would say 30 or 32lb do the same job? I guess in saying that I definately will need an upgrade EEC.


I would look at a set of 24lb injectors and matching MAF (C&L, Pro-M or PMAS), that should set you back $700-1k and you wont need to touch the EEC then. Then once you get the blower you just sell the MAF/injectors off and upgrade to some 42lbers or so along with the wolf and you are set.

Vic wrote:
Now I also will be changing my intake manifold and going the GT40P path and will be installing some aftermarket 1.7 roller rockers ( yella terra? ) as well. I'm pretty sure that just the change in lift with these heads and rr's will be far greater than my current stock setup so if I was to change my cam.


The Crane 2031 is an awesome cam for GT40P head setups, gives good power and drivability. The 2030 is the next small step up followed by the TFS1 IMO, and they are both designed for 1.6 rockers. There are plenty of other cam makers out there but a large percentage of the modded aussie and US guys run one of those 3 cams. And yeah they run hydraulic roller cams which are expensive at around $400.
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:51 pm 
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EDXR8 wrote:
The Crane 2031 is an awesome cam for GT40P head setups, gives good power and drivability. The 2030 is the next small step up followed by the TFS1 IMO, and they are both designed for 1.6 rockers.

So all three of those will happily run with 1.7 rr's?

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:07 pm 
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Vic wrote:
So all three of those will happily run with 1.7 rr's?


No the 2031 is the only one designeed for 1.7 RR's, you limit yourself a fair bit as most Windsor cams are designed for 1.6's. Most will work with 1.7's though, you just have to make sure you are not pushing the lift up too much, eg the 2030 with 1.72's will give around 580th lift which is just too much IMO.
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:25 pm 
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EDXR8 wrote:
No the 2031 is the only one designeed for 1.7 RR's, you limit yourself a fair bit as most Windsor cams are designed for 1.6's. Most will work with 1.7's though, you just have to make sure you are not pushing the lift up too much, eg the 2030 with 1.72's will give around 580th lift which is just too much IMO.

Okay so two combinations are the 2031 with 1.7 rr's and the other is a 2030 without rr's and left running at 1.6.
I can only place a guess that the 2031 with 1.7's will have the advantage of less friction and a few extra kw's with the 1.7 rr's installed as opposed to the 2030 with no aftermarket rr's installed at all and running at the factory 1.6 ratio.
Which combo would give the best performance?

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:14 pm 
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You can get 1.6 roller rockers too, the 1.7's were brought out mainly to let people get a little extra lift with their stock cam.
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:26 pm 
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offyaguts wrote:
Any idea how much a set of 24lb injectors and a unichip will cost? My guess is around $500+

Cheers


Anyone know what a set of 24lb injectors are worth by themselves?

 

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