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Windsor misfiring: suggestions? 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:55 pm 
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Scaffy wrote:
Is it right that you were saying you've been suffereing these problems for 7 or 8 years (not starting without throttle, etc)? Is that when you had the chip or flash done?

Did you do as XR9UTE suggested and try running the car with the MAF unplugged? Was there a difference in the way it ran? Can you get hold of another MAF to try?


Yeah, it's been a crappy cold-start idler for years. It was fine for about a year, then I was filling it with fuel and it suddenly wouldn't start and idle on it's own without throttle. Never did again...

I've emailed ChipTorque during the week, but haven't received a courtesy reply yet. Too busy with the turbo kids I suspect. :roll:

Well, today I swapped out the fuel pump, no difference. In fact, it won't even start at all after solid cranking for 5 minutes. I took the Ka down to the video shop instead. It always starts! So, after plugs, coil, rotor, dizzy cap, fuel filter, TFI module, fuel pump, fuel pump relay, TPS reset, PIP voltage check and new alternator, what am I left with? ECU or dizzy? Can the Hall Effect pickup be replaced in the dizzy?

As XR9 said, MAF shouldn't affect spark. I'm now wondering if anyone can loan/ sell me an ECU and dizzy to plug in and see if the car will run? I'd appreciate the help. I can get cheap rates through Toll Priority. Any takers? :(

Mike

 

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:42 pm 
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I've got a 6DGD sitting at home, which as far as I know is auto v8. Only problem is that I'm not at home for another 3 and a half weeks. Call around as many Ford wreckers as you can. You should be able to come up with something. XR9UTE should be able to help you out with a list off EECs that would suit your car. Or even have a look in the catch code section of the ECU/Electrical or whatever it is forum.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:47 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Thanks mate, it may boil down to ECU replacement. :?

How will another ECU affect the car? I've checked in the catch code list and the one I got back from ChipTorque is from a later car (V8 Futura). If I can get an EL ECU, what happens (speed sensitive steering etc.)?

I did some more fiddling today and still won't start at all. I repaired a corroded connector to the coil and cleaned up various wiring harness connectors. I even opened up the ECU to check for leaking caps and it's clean as a whistle in there. Also cleaned up the multi pin connector to it.

I've ordered a Hall sensor assembly from Repco ($125) that arrives tomorrow. It appears that it will unbolt OK from the top if the dizzy, but after removing the sensor ring, how does the silver mounting plate underneath pull off the narrow shaft? Help!

Cheers, Mike

 

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Bordeaux Purple, Tickford kit, slammed, 18" BA XR8's, EL Ghia chrome, full leather, Pioneer audio, C&C, ABS, LSD, Crane cam, GT40P heads, high flow cats, Genie extractors, lots of woodgrain, chrome and interior lights!

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:20 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Performed a few more checks that I found here:

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,588.0.html

A great site, lots of good info for Windsor owners.:)

OK, plenty of spark from coil to dizzy, voltage from ground to + and - terminal @coil, solid voltage from gnd to - @coil when rotating dizzy, voltage from gnd to pin 4 at TFI (power), injectors have power when checked between the red connector wire and gnd.

So, injectors, dizzy and TFI have plenty of power to them, the fuel pump primes, engine cranks....gotta be the Hall sensor, right?

I can't recall whether the tacho usually reads anything whilst cranking the motor under normal conditions, but mine's not doing so now. What does the tacho read RPM from, TFI or Hall Effect sensor? As it was flickering with my previous misfiring when driving, it must point to the problem as I've basically ruled nearly everything else out.

Thanks, Mike

 

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Bordeaux Purple, Tickford kit, slammed, 18" BA XR8's, EL Ghia chrome, full leather, Pioneer audio, C&C, ABS, LSD, Crane cam, GT40P heads, high flow cats, Genie extractors, lots of woodgrain, chrome and interior lights!

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:29 pm 
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You will have to completely disassemble the distributor to change the Hall Effect which is why I said to get another dizzy to try. It's the most likely problem unless your eec is dodgy. I have a coupla 4DEG EEC's if you need one but TRY A DIZZY first!
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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:55 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Picked up a dizzy today, $145 and........still no go! :(

Just did a simple check of unplugged coil lead to dizzy cap post and no spark, even after the tests I did yesterday. Tried another spare lead, no spark, cleaned up and tapped main power relay (brown?) and crank, crank, crank....

Can a faulty coil cause those tacho needle fluctuations and associated misfires? It's less than a year old.

Thanks, Mike

 

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Bordeaux Purple, Tickford kit, slammed, 18" BA XR8's, EL Ghia chrome, full leather, Pioneer audio, C&C, ABS, LSD, Crane cam, GT40P heads, high flow cats, Genie extractors, lots of woodgrain, chrome and interior lights!

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Is this dizzy a known good one?
The Coil can certainly cause this problem but I thought you'd already swapped it?
Clear the codes and do another self test with this new dizzy in place.
If you still get a PIP fail code your EEC or your harness is probably dodgy.
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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:46 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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G'day mate, well the dizzy was from the wreckers, looked tidy and I assume it was on the running vehicle when it was written off. :) I even swapped my new TFI, rotor and cap onto it.

I do have spark now but when KOEO and checking spark to the dizzy cap centre post, the spark goes tick, tick, tick about once every second when I'm not cranking???

Cleaned up the new plugs (pretty black from fueling up), cranked again and not even a kick. Got the coil tested at the auto elec. and it's fine. Fuel and spark, but still no go. I'm ready to give up now, lost a day's work today dammit!

ECU is the only thing left I guess. I'll try cleaning up the 'salt and pepper shakers' harness connectors again tomorrow. BTW, does the red wire connect to the right hand side spade terminal on the coil? I was worried about swapping them around and frying something.

Cheers, Mike

 

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Bordeaux Purple, Tickford kit, slammed, 18" BA XR8's, EL Ghia chrome, full leather, Pioneer audio, C&C, ABS, LSD, Crane cam, GT40P heads, high flow cats, Genie extractors, lots of woodgrain, chrome and interior lights!

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:26 am 
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Have you set the base timing properly? Did you re self test for the 211?
You should probably put the original TFI back on that dizzy...what you are doing is possibly contaminating your diagnosis by fitting parts from the problem pool...if you know what I mean?
but it certainly is sounding like a dead EEC.
There should be a + and - inside the coil connector. Don't get it the wrong way around.
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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:05 am 
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http://summitlake.com/COMMENTARY/WP/?p=25

 

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:29 am 
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EBXR8380 wrote:
http://summitlake.com/COMMENTARY/WP/?p=25


After reading that link it reminded of a very similar situation I faced the day before I got the work done on my car. Driving out of the shopping centre in late-night shopping and it stalled and wouldn't start for ages. I was cranking on and off for about 10 minutes before it got going again. It was closing time and there were a lot of angry people having to squeeze past me. I've never had that happen again since. A new rotor cap, TFI (don't remember the brand, but BPT do them) and leads all went onto the car. I was told that the TFI was most likely the reason for that happening.

 

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Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:06 pm 
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OK, it's official, the wonderful ChipTorque EEC has died. I really need the car urgently, so the auto elecs are putting in a new EEC tomorrow, 600-odd bucks installed and car tuned, only $80 more than putting an unknown second hand ECU in.

It will be interesting to see how the car goes with a standard tune. It only ever had 120-isk kW at the wheels, but had really nice torque, throttle response and fuel economy. ChipTorque have still not responded to my email as I'd like to get this one re-flashed after all the trouble I've had with idling all these years.

Thanks for all the help guys, I'll let you know how it goes.

Mike

 

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EF Ghia 5.0 - XR8 in a tuxedo....classy, low and loud

Bordeaux Purple, Tickford kit, slammed, 18" BA XR8's, EL Ghia chrome, full leather, Pioneer audio, C&C, ABS, LSD, Crane cam, GT40P heads, high flow cats, Genie extractors, lots of woodgrain, chrome and interior lights!

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Ahh s**t I would have overnight bagged one for $200! and what do they mean by "tuned"...plug it in and start it up?
I expected as much from s**t torque.
Just leave the new EEC alone and crank your base timing a coupla degrees. You could also send me the dead eec and I'll suck the guts out of it and see how screwy it really is.
PM me for details.
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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:10 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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You got it!

Mike

 

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EF Ghia 5.0 - XR8 in a tuxedo....classy, low and loud

Bordeaux Purple, Tickford kit, slammed, 18" BA XR8's, EL Ghia chrome, full leather, Pioneer audio, C&C, ABS, LSD, Crane cam, GT40P heads, high flow cats, Genie extractors, lots of woodgrain, chrome and interior lights!

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor misfiring: suggestions?
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:40 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Well, the saga continues. :evil: Second hand dizzy was crap and the car still won't start or run properly with the new ECU. I didn't get much detail, but remote starting it directly from the starter motor is OK, but using the key is a problem??? The guy said there was a problem with injector pulse or something. I couldn't work out exact details as I was in a hurry.

New TFI, coil, plugs, leads, dizzy, rotor, ECU, fuel pump, filter, alternator....WTF is left? Smartlock (isn't that in the ECU?) maybe? Motor itself is fine, plenty of compression as far as I know.

Mike, Oz

 

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EF Ghia 5.0 - XR8 in a tuxedo....classy, low and loud

Bordeaux Purple, Tickford kit, slammed, 18" BA XR8's, EL Ghia chrome, full leather, Pioneer audio, C&C, ABS, LSD, Crane cam, GT40P heads, high flow cats, Genie extractors, lots of woodgrain, chrome and interior lights!

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