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The FD LTD Lives... 

 

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 Post subject: The FD LTD Lives...
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:32 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Age: 32

Posts: 384

Joined: 26th Jun 2005

Ride: 1984 FD LTD

Location: Mackay
QLD, Australia

hey all, how are we this fine sunday evening?

the task for the weekend, has been to remove the head off the FD LTD and replace it with the head off the ZL Fairlane i have sitting here for parts.

All of this went well, removed head off Fairlane, and then proceeded to remove the head off the LTD - that took place yesturday, and today was put the new head onto the ltd.

ok, to the problem
once running, and you hold your foot on the accel a bit to stop it from falling over itself and stalling, it will 'run' - it doesnt sound healthy and is spitting fuel out the exhaust in the process.
we have checked, and adjusted the timing, made sure all the plugs are in, made sure all the leads are on the plugs, made sure everything is attached where it should be etc etc.
but she still refuses to idle by herself, have adjusted the idle as well which has made no difference.

when she falls over herself, she stumbles - fires - f@rt - fires - dies dead, and if the tacho is correct, is dying at around 500 rpm.

the LTD is an efi 6 and auto with factory tow pack - as is the Fairlane.

does anyone have any idea as to why she just wants to stall?

the car used to be on lpg - up until 3days ago, when the head finally let go for good (upon removal, it had let go at the back of the head @ #6 as usual..)

when we put the whole lot back together, the intention was never to return it to LPG and as such all this s**t has not been put back on, all vacumme lines have been replaced as per factory location in the workshop manual.

when she was running prior to the head letting go, she never used to run too well on petrol, but used to run a whole lot better than she does now.
when running now, the whole car shakes almost violently to the rythem of it f@rt along and spluttering.

if anyone has any ideas as to why its not being nice, please share some thoughts - as its quite frustrating to go through all this effort and not be any closer to getting it roadworthied again!

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:10 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Age: 32

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Joined: 26th Jun 2005

Ride: 1984 FD LTD

Location: Mackay
QLD, Australia

im also using the ZL AFM onto the FD's loom, and the ZL fuel rail and injectors, with the wiring harness from the FD plugged onto the injectors.


hope that helps some more

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:23 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Joined: 23rd Sep 2006

Ride: '84 Zk Fairlane

Location: Wodonga
VIC, Australia

sounds like a vacume leak, EFI Xflows are a vacume sealed bottomend and WILL NOT idol if there is a air leak into the motor, it has to be sealed, make sure the rocker cover gasket is sealing properly, oil filler cap, dip stick tube gasket, all the crankcase ventilation lines are connected peopeerly and not split these are the usual culrets

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:41 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: XG Pano

Location: Albany
WA, Australia

tried sticking it back onto LPG just to see if it works? that way you might be able to isolate it as just a fuel problem. (btw check the fuel as well... engines dont like water :( just realised that when i tried to start the paddock basher today after 2 weeks sitting in the rain... DOH!! sigh... oh well get the jigger.....flush it out n fill her up again. bloody holden heap of s**t... :D thats why its in the paddock ay!?)

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:55 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Joined: 26th Jun 2005

Ride: 1984 FD LTD

Location: Mackay
QLD, Australia

we are thinking it could be dirty fuel, as the prev lady owner never used to run it on fuel - only lpg coz it was cheaper to run, so who knows how old the petrol is in the tank?!

cant put it back onto LPG, as we pulled all the lines out and the relays, switches, and the lpg tank itself too. we did this when we had easier acess into the engine bay to get the lpg converter out.

the oil cap wasnt sealing properly, but we have fixed that now by bending the tabs out a bit more, to help it grip the rocker cover the way its ment to. all the vac lines have been checked for cracking as well, all of which are in useable condition.

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:59 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Ride: '84 Zk Fairlane

Location: Wodonga
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zk wrote:
im also using the ZL AFM onto the FD's loom, and the ZL fuel rail and injectors, with the wiring harness from the FD plugged onto the injectors.


hope that helps some more


mate sorry i dident spot this when you posted it!!

ZL/XF/FE AFMs are different to XE/ZK/Fd as will run like a pig! you NEED the proper AFM (Bosch Jetronic) not the EEC IV Afm!!!!

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:19 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Age: 32

Posts: 384

Joined: 26th Jun 2005

Ride: 1984 FD LTD

Location: Mackay
QLD, Australia

84_Fairlane wrote:
zk wrote:
im also using the ZL AFM onto the FD's loom, and the ZL fuel rail and injectors, with the wiring harness from the FD plugged onto the injectors.


hope that helps some more


mate sorry i dident spot this when you posted it!!

ZL/XF/FE AFMs are different to XE/ZK/Fd as will run like a pig! you NEED the proper AFM (Bosch Jetronic) not the EEC IV Afm!!!!


i added this bit of info after the first post, so il let you off for not seeing it - lol
i was wondering if this would have had any effect on the running of the ltd, the reason i put the zl afm on the fd, was the fd lid was hacked up a fair bit to put the lpg hoses onto it. I still have the original afm, il pull it out of the hacked box and put it into the good box, and see if that makes any difference.

cheers

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:12 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 31

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Ride: XG Pano

Location: Albany
WA, Australia

i reakon its dirty filthy fuel, sounds just about right. similar to whats rong with my pano atm... i never run on petrol and always LPG... swapped over to petrol the other day (i ran outa gas) and eeeww... didnt run very nicely either.

check your injectors as well, when they're not used much they clog up. once again... same as my pano

good luck mate ;)

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:32 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Age: 32

Posts: 384

Joined: 26th Jun 2005

Ride: 1984 FD LTD

Location: Mackay
QLD, Australia

heya hombie, cheers for the reply :P

the injectors are clean - well, cleaner than the ones that came off the ltd, as the fairlane was running on fuel only, and ran very very very well.
im leaning towards dirty fuel more than clogged injectors, along with using the wrong AFM, which il be takin to work tomorrow and changing the parts over then and trying out when i get home.

cheers

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:35 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Ride: '84 Zk Fairlane

Location: Wodonga
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be very delicate with the AFM, unless you can just swap the plastic (assumeing thats what theve damages) cause if you cant just swap the whole sensor section its difficult and easy to damage the electrics

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:13 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Age: 32

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Joined: 26th Jun 2005

Ride: 1984 FD LTD

Location: Mackay
QLD, Australia

pretty sure that the senor part itself (the metal bit on the plastic lid) comes off with just four bolts on the inside. should be a simple matter of just switchin the bits over... hopefully

 

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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:37 am 
Oompa Loompa
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WA, Australia

just had an epiffiny... check the fuel pump. mates statesman had the same issues... turned out the pump was a bit tired from not being used in 8 months. (i know it would still be operating in yours when its run lpg... but hey just a suggestion ey?)

 

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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:44 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Age: 32

Posts: 384

Joined: 26th Jun 2005

Ride: 1984 FD LTD

Location: Mackay
QLD, Australia

the system in the ltd seems to have been a smart and thought out - read expensive! it seems that along with making the dash guage read the lpg tank levels, the fuel pump cuts out as well when its on lpg.
if it is the fuel pump, its not big deal, i have a spare one here which is brand new.
got a couple of other tips as well from a few mates at work today too which il be trying soon as possible - will let yaz all know how i go :)

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:02 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Age: 32

Posts: 384

Joined: 26th Jun 2005

Ride: 1984 FD LTD

Location: Mackay
QLD, Australia

just an update on whats happening with the FD LTD:

today i got an early finish from work, so i was able to get around to doing something on it.

i swapped the metal part of the airbox - the AFM off the airbox currently on the fd (blue lid - zl part) back for the AFM that came off the LTD orginally (black lid on metal part - fd part)
that was pretty easy - 4 bolts inside the lid, and the one on the outside.

swapped the parts over, put it back on, tightened a few other things like air box mountings a bit more and tried to fire her up again....

now the current problem
it doesnt want to kick over and run, it can be 'convinced' to run by holding your foot FLAT on the accel pedal while trying to start it, at which point it roars (litterally!) to life. Its got spark, fuel and the timing is somewhat close to where it should be too - we played around with that as well on the weekend
The idle is still pretty crap - but better than before
the car doesnt shake nearly as much as it did 3days ago and when its 'running' she isnt spewing out pure black smoke and smelling very very very very very very very very very very very (x many more) rich.

so we are in a step in the right direction then :D
problem is, i have to give it more revs to stop it stalling - but i think that might be because we fiddled around with the screw on top of the TB to adjust the idle rate when it had the ZL AFM on the airbox.

the sensor in the AFM that sticks down from the 'roof' of it, into the incoming air charge, has a fine/ fair bit of greasy residue on it too, as does the vane as well, might get in there and clean it out somewhat - will this make much difference to runnig?

i cant really run it too much - really shouldnt be starting it at all, considering it still has 'choc milk' in the sump - i havnt had the money to be able to buy even the woolies cheapest oil to flush through her :(
I also need to buy a new rotor cap to go in the distributor as well - as its chewed up ANOTHER one in the 7months i have owned the car.

any other thoughts as to what my problem might be?

side question as well - will the ZL Distributor work / run the ltd? im leaning towards no because its spark advance / retard is controlled by the ECU in a ZL, and the ECU of the FD wont be able to control it?

cheers

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:10 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Joined: 23rd Sep 2006

Ride: '84 Zk Fairlane

Location: Wodonga
VIC, Australia

id be setting that idol correctly to start with, again vacume leaks can cause a rough idol, whats the like may be overpowering the system, you cant run the latter dizzy as its computer controled where as the xe is a electronic unit with mechanical and vac advance

 

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