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toploader vs. borg warner single rail 

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:55 pm 
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i'm a fan of the top loader but i have had a few single rails aswell and found they were good to, the only bad thing i'll say about a single rail is that the shifters come out to easy, i have pulled them out when changing to second many times
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:44 pm 
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Hey guys since we've got a few on board who know about single rails, mine is a bit whiney in 1st and second, but OK in 3rd and 4th. It shifts fine, has sufficient oil etc - I think I've only even noticed it in last few weeks cos it has been cold and driving with the windows up.... what is the verdict??Do you reckon its dying?

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:13 pm 
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tearlejc wrote:
Hey guys since we've got a few on board who know about single rails, mine is a bit whiney in 1st and second, but OK in 3rd and 4th. It shifts fine, has sufficient oil etc - I think I've only even noticed it in last few weeks cos it has been cold and driving with the windows up.... what is the verdict??Do you reckon its dying?


That whining noise in 1st and 2nd indicate that the input bearing and the layshaft bearings are worn. It can be rebuilt.

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:38 am 
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thanks for that - how long do you reckon I can get away with it if I take it easy?

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:28 pm 
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tearlejc wrote:
thanks for that - how long do you reckon I can get away with it if I take it easy?


How far is it to the edge of the universe????

Don't know, whilst being used, the box will detiorate, how fast???, I don't know. Change the oil in it, and put 20W50 engine oil. Just keep changing it every 6mths or so.

 

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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:06 am 
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Ah, no I'm only talking about keeping it going for the next few months - doing an engine and gearbox swap soon....

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:51 pm 
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5 gear boxes behind a 250 flow i think that might say something about your driving not the gearbox strength....
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:38 pm 
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I had a 265 Centura with a single rail in it. I broke everything possible. clutches. Diffs,uni's but the box was indestructable. I have owned many single rails in both falcons and valiants and the only drama i ever had was it getting stuck between 1st and reverse. Its an ezy fix but the box has to come out to fix it. If some one is going through 5 single rails behind a 250x flow there is some serious unrelated issues there.
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:59 am 
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toploader hands down, i thought that was just plain logic.
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 Post subject: Re: toploader vs. borg warner single rail
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:58 am 
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kircher wrote:
Hi, I'm currently in the market for a 4 speed manual gearbox for my stock 302 XC. I am just wondering what are the pros and cons of the toploader and borg warner single rail gearbox. From my research, the toploader is more sought after, is stronger and was used in earlier falcons, that's where my knowledge ends. What are the differences between the two other than superficially? Is it worth buying a toploader for the extra money involved? Keep in mind, that I do intend later on down the track on doing some mild performance work to the 302, the single rail should be more than strong enough for a mild 302 right? I don't want to abuse the engine or driveline either.



Hi

for comparisons in strength , you can't go past the top_loader gear box

I have both if you are interetsed , complete set ups.

Behind a 302 ( C / W ) you would be safe with a single rail setup , unless your planning on producing well over 450bhp the stick with a top_loader gearbox.


cheers

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:17 am 
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Single rail is cheap and tough enough for most applications, but if youare gonna run big power then the top loader is the go.
I broke about 7 3speed boxes in a Transit, but never broke teh single rail.
I only took it out because teh selectors were worn out and it would lock in 2 gears which was a pain.
Also the shifter position was a pain in a Transit.
I have a Dodge light truck box to go in it, which will put the shifter where I want it, but otherwise teh single rail is a good box.

The lever will come out in your hand if the trheads on the nylon nut are stuffed.
Also the locking in 2 gears thing is usually the selector forks being worn.
Run engine oil in it, NOT gear oil.
Single rails from n XF have a larger diameter layshaft so are probably theoretically stronger.

there is a place in Sydney called The Gearbox Factory who do rebuild kits for a reasonable price, and they also weld up and remachine worn selectors, and do a conversion with a steel nut to replace the nylon one that strips out.
I have also seen the shifter housing drilled and tapped for grubscrews to go into the nylon nut from the outside and hold it firmly in position.
I also had one once where the shifter was held in with tie wire..........

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:51 pm 
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Yeah I have already bought a single rail. I had a look inside and it looks pretty good to me, but I'm going to rebuild it. I'm not going to be producing big power any time soon, and I won't be racing or abusing it, so it should be fine. Later on down the track if I stroke it to 351, I might upgrade to a top loader.
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:14 pm 
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If you want to replace that nylon nut and don't want to cut the gear lever and reweld it, then the ball can be slit with a hacksaw and the nylon nut replaced. I would go for a grubscrew in from the side though, they are a pain if the lever comes out when you wanna change gear.

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:14 pm 
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carnut1100 wrote:
If you want to replace that nylon nut and don't want to cut the gear lever and reweld it, then the ball can be slit with a hacksaw and the nylon nut replaced. I would go for a grubscrew in from the side though, they are a pain if the lever comes out when you wanna change gear.


Thanks for that information. I haven't actually done anything with the new box yet (I haven't the time at this stage), so any feedback is welcome.
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:32 am 
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Yeah, the nylon nut screws into the shifter housing, but the threads strip, and sometimes a new nut won't work because teh threads in the ally wear out too. Then a screw in from the side works, but ya gotta make sure it doesn't go right through the nylon nut or the shift will be locked.....

I got given the tip by a Ford mechanic about slitting the ball under the nut, and if you slit it in a slight spiral, not straight up and down then it functions perfectly afterwards.

If the box has a tendency to go into first and third at the same time and lock up solid, then the selector forks are probably worn, although it can also be the interlock spool.
If it does do that and you are on a hill then you need to push the car or jack up one wheel to relieve the pressure to get it out of gear again.
Once again only really a problem with a tired box, and you can klive with it by being deliberate and careful when selecting first, for third you just hold it as right as possible, but if you try that when shifting into first on a worn box you end up in reverse instead.

That said, they are a good box.

 

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