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ozrunner
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Age:100
Posts: 79
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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 Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ="t2te50......I question them about some of the things they've done and why? Thats what forums are for aren't they? |
Yep, so be equally prepared for questions as you have certainly raised a few in your comments so far along with some bad part decisions, but no probs it's a free world and your engine. 
But let’s clear the air on a few issues first, ie noway did you have .020’ piston clearance as it would have sounded like a f..cked diesel, minor offset pins aren’t going to be any major help on rpm, you really should work out it's compression beforehand as it is possible it could be no better so it would be wise to check it.
But if you seriously think that combination will net you around 350rwhp you are dreaming. You won't see anywhere near those figures as the heads are wrong, the cams wrong and we don't know what manifold you intend using but it's probably also wrong .
However, it’s your project and as you indicate a budget build so it still will be a good basic engine for all to follow so keep the info coming.
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xr8ute
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:28
Posts: 657
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Location: Wollongong NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| t2te50 wrote: | | Why is everyone so paranoid about cam size? Can't be bothered getting an outdated e303 cam and then enduring never ending tuning problems like some, for what? to run a couple of tenths quicker down the 1/4 mile? |
It just seems a shame to be running some half-decent heads, only to leave a whole bunch of flow back up in the ports because the valve is only opening 0.480"...
I dont really understand your commitment to std type cam, and std tune.....just seems a bit mismatched to me. At least with such a mild cam, you should be able to get away with the std GT40 valvesprings.
Id be interested in understanding the difference between the x306/x307 and the x303/x305 heads. There seems to be very little info about these newer castings.
Good luck making the 13's, ill be watching with interest. |
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Kilma
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:24
Posts: 1225
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| t2te50 wrote: | I don't talk anyone down mate. I question them about some of the things they've done and why? Thats what forums are for aren't they?
i like to point out faults because in most low budget builds (now lets not kid ourselves) things rarely go according to plan. I think XH5LWEPN will attest to this. |
Yes, that is what they are for, but your first set of posts in XH5L's thread weren't exactly friendly, were they? It all went downhill from there. You were talking down his mate in the AU saying your stock one is faster, blah blah. Maybe not directly, but it was implied. Certainly could have gone about it in a lot nicer manner, and you wouldn't have gotten the backlash you did, and are still getting.
Anyway, as with what everyone else has said, I'm keen to see the results here, and see if you walk the walk as well as talk the talk.
I do wish you all the best in your build, and hope you reach the limits you are hoping to. It will just show how good the Windsor really can be so simply. |
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t2te50
Fordmods - Smokin em up
Age:27
Posts: 279
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Location: melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ozrunner wrote: | | Quote: | | ="t2te50......I question them about some of the things they've done and why? Thats what forums are for aren't they? |
Yep, so be equally prepared for questions as you have certainly raised a few in your comments so far along with some bad part decisions, but no probs it's a free world and your engine.
But let’s clear the air on a few issues first, ie noway did you have .020’ piston clearance as it would have sounded like a f..cked diesel, minor offset pins aren’t going to be any major help on rpm, you really should work out it's compression beforehand as it is possible it could be no better so it would be wise to check it.
But if you seriously think that combination will net you around 350rwhp you are dreaming. You won't see anywhere near those figures as the heads are wrong, the cams wrong and we don't know what manifold you intend using but it's probably also wrong .
However, it’s your project and as you indicate a budget build so it still will be a good basic engine for all to follow so keep the info coming. . |
Sorry I meant .020, .20 it wouldn't even run.
The reason I'm keeping everything so tame is because I want to keep the cars excellent fuel efficiency and driveability. I did question my machinist about the comp ratio, he said it will only come up by a couple of points (9.6-1).
As you can see the lower part of the explorer manifold has really been opened up, but so has everything. The cam is the LARGEST cam tickford built (even larger then 250kw and 220kw motors). Personaly my goal is to run a 13.8 second quarter mile at over 100mph.
Time dedication and attention to detail will definitely be the key factors here. Just from the port lob alone I picked up 4kmh and almost .2 of a second. |
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ozrunner
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Age:100
Posts: 79
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry I meant .020, ......
But that's what you did say and at 020" it would rattle like a F'd diesel but not to worry, it's now old news.
The cam is the LARGEST cam tickford built (even larger then 250kw and 220kw motors).
Tickford cams etc are still very mild so mum's can take them shopping so it's not a cam for extracting hidden hp.
You can still get good mpg with a strong engine so don't be afraid to go outside the square.
Personaly my goal is to run a 13.8 second quarter mile at over 100mph.
Time will tell and it's a reasonable goal to shoot for.
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XH5LWEPN
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
Posts: 1812
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| t2te50 wrote: |
i like to point out faults because in most low budget builds (now lets not kid ourselves) things rarely go according to plan. I think XH5LWEPN will attest to this. |
Isnt this a "low budget" build? After all you have said you want to keep the build under $6000  . I have alot of doubt you will get 350hp out of this engine mate, but im sure you may be able to slip a couple of favours to your dyno operator to bump up that figure  . But as you always say power figures dont mean s**t, so bring on this 13.8@100+mph, i'll be waiting...........
Also what hasnt gone to plan in my engine build?
As far as i'm concerned i have been quite suprised how well my combo has gone, especially since the e-303 is known as a "pig" of a cam. After thte next tune is all up hill from there, 13.8's will be a thing of the past. As for the sarcasm, jus trying to bring myself down to your level. |
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Scaffy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:30
Posts: 1196
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Upside down, upside downnnnn |
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hans hartman
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:57
Posts: 1305
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Location: wollongong NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Scaffy wrote: | | Upside down, upside downnnnn |
ROLLER SKATES ON THE ROOF,BEING TOWED? |
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t2te50
Fordmods - Smokin em up
Age:27
Posts: 279
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Location: melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: |
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3 weeks and counting fellas and the new fire breather will awaken!!!!
I can brag till thye cows come home but at the end of the day the proof is in the pudding. It will atleast run a 14.0 at 100mph.
Comp is being raised to 9.8-1 to burn as much fuel as possible. |
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fairy v8
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Posts: 304
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Location: tauranga New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:57 am Post subject: |
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youve gotta get it in there to burn it mate .......if the valves not open long enough or far enough ......cant see the point  |
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XR9UTE
EFI Guru
Age:43
Posts: 1581
Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Something to remember....whenever you go over 70% load and/or you hit WOT(anything over 3.7v typically) the EEC will go open loop hence, the HEGO's are ignored.
The richness you see is typical factory calibration.
Why so rich? It's a safety measure to protect the engine more than anything. |
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t2te50
Fordmods - Smokin em up
Age:27
Posts: 279
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Location: melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| XR9UTE wrote: | Something to remember....whenever you go over 70% load and/or you hit WOT(anything over 3.7v typically) the EEC will go open loop hence, the HEGO's are ignored.
The richness you see is typical factory calibration.
Why so rich? It's a safety measure to protect the engine more than anything. |
Dude you've answered a question that I've pondered for a long time but never bothered asking. Thanks!!
So porting your MAF housing to let in some pirate air to clean up those AFR's isn't a bad idea after all??????
On instantaneous wide open throttles I've always believed the ECU went back to its base fuel map, thats how all this porting business came about.
Oxy sensors, MAF, temp sensors I always thought of as secondary adjustments because their goverened by natural forces. Unlike a TPS that uses a direct electrical current and is simplified in its operation (quicker to respong to changes). |
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t2te50
Fordmods - Smokin em up
Age:27
Posts: 279
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Location: melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Things ar progressing quite well and we will soon know whether I'm all talk LOL  .
I've just picked up a high volume oil pump and HIGH ENERGY sump. Want all the protection I can get, I personaly can't believe these things have a smaller oil capacity then a 4L!!!!!!!!
I get back my balanced bottom end on Friday so more pics then. |
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XH5LWEPN
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
Posts: 1812
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry mate but just reading back to the start of the thread i seen you posted this................
| t2te50 wrote: | | The goal is to squeeze every last drop of horsepower out of the 302 running stock tune and mechanicals. |
Is this really still the case or have hings changed? There seems to be a huge change in some of the "mechanicals" in this engine.
None the less good luck for your 13 sec pass. |
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t2te50
Fordmods - Smokin em up
Age:27
Posts: 279
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Location: melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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It will be my pleasure to put you to shame XH5LWEPN with my 1,700kg pig.
Everything is pretty much stock so I don't know what your talking about??? Exciting times ahead boys none the less. |
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Scaffy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:30
Posts: 1196
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| t2te50 wrote: | | It will be my pleasure to put you to shame XH5LWEPN with my 1,700kg pig. |
counting our chickens before they're hatched are we??? |
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XR9UTE
EFI Guru
Age:43
Posts: 1581
Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| t2te50 wrote: | | XR9UTE wrote: | Something to remember....whenever you go over 70% load and/or you hit WOT(anything over 3.7v typically) the EEC will go open loop hence, the HEGO's are ignored.
The richness you see is typical factory calibration.
Why so rich? It's a safety measure to protect the engine more than anything. |
Dude you've answered a question that I've pondered for a long time but never bothered asking. Thanks!!
So porting your MAF housing to let in some pirate air to clean up those AFR's isn't a bad idea after all??????
On instantaneous wide open throttles I've always believed the ECU went back to its base fuel map, thats how all this porting business came about.
Oxy sensors, MAF, temp sensors I always thought of as secondary adjustments because their goverened by natural forces. Unlike a TPS that uses a direct electrical current and is simplified in its operation (quicker to respong to changes). |
Porting your MAF or using an aftermarket MAF designed for bigger injectors without recalibrating the EEC is a common trick. It does however throw out load calculations and therefore detonation can result due to increased spark advance and lean areas of the cal. that may not have been there before.
As for the other sensors...O2 is used in closed loop only. MAF is the single most important sensor as it determines both fuel and load and therefore spark control. Air and coolant temp are also very important to provide offsets to the calibration. TPS is probably the least important as it only indicates demand...ie Idle, part throttle and WOT. As far as fueling goes It does have an important part to play in accelerator pump functions.
I'm not sure I understand the "direct electrical current" part but if you're talking about response time you should know the MAF is actually faster responding than the TPS. It has to be because it needs to measure the Air Mass many times per revolution of the engine.
BTW what's an X307??
Pete. |
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