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fiend
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:35
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 Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: |
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I pulled the manual loom out of an EB - I still have an auto computer though....
So saying, the manual box is still not attached to the engine or driveshaft....
Should I just get a manual EF computer, or can I kill two birds with one stone by putting one of Jaysens chips into it with a manual data put on it? |
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TROYMAN
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| fiend wrote: | I pulled the manual loom out of an EB - I still have an auto computer though....
So saying, the manual box is still not attached to the engine or driveshaft....
Should I just get a manual EF computer, or can I kill two birds with one stone by putting one of Jaysens chips into it with a manual data put on it? |
the ef ecu wont plug into the eb loom..
as ef has 100 pins and eb has 60 pins... |
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fiend
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:35
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry TROYMAN... I merely meant the cable that goes from the manual box to where it plugs into the car loom.
No worries --- I hear the EL computer is similar to the EB then? Also the memories are much smaller than the EF or AU.
Sorry for the confusion... |
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fiend
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:35
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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EDIT DOUBLE POST (how the hell did that happen?)
Did anyone ever do anything with the clutch switch in an EF / EL cruise control setup other than turn off cruise? |
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fiend
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:35
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: CRUISE CONTROL ON EF / EL (AU?) MODELS |
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CLARIFICATION ---
I would like to use the CLUTCH PEDAL of my upcoming manual install to push the DECEL (or SET-) button on the cruise control so that the engine doesn't rev when the clutch is in and cruise is on. The standard Ford wiring for this part (clutch switch) seems to turn cruise off, and you must push the RES COAST button each time you push the clutch in to get cruise working at the previous set speed. The idea of using SET- instead is that you push the clutch in, the engine will not rev, you change gear, release the clutch and the cruise picks up pretty much where it left off. Cruise seems to use an "average" of the last second of travel to calculate its new speed setting, so although it should be slowing down 2km/h every time it changes gear, in practice it probably wont.
Have just pulled apart some cruise control switches (EF) and found it's not simple as what I'd hoped.
The switch I want to use for the manual clutch is the DECELERATE (or SET - button) is not a straight switch at all.
Before it goes into the clock spring it is actually a positive connection through a 120ohm resistor as the other two buttons on this side of the cruise control setup use other resistance values to feed the information through the clocksprings limited resource of connections.
In other words - when you push the DECEL button, it provides a bit of resistance on a completed circuit between the black and the blue / black wires. The blue / black has a label of BLU on circuit board.
The ON button provides a completed circuit between blue / black (label of BLE on circuit board) and purple/pink where as OFF connects BLK and BLE
The photo, attached, shows the front and the back of the circuit boards. The back view has been mirrored so that you can directly see what components of circuit board line up and connect to others....
***
I have two questions -
1) What does the normal clutch connection (terminated under dash near the brake pin) do? Does it do the equal of pushing the RES COAST button?
2) What connections to the cruise computer does the DECEL / SET- button actually use, or do I need to replicate the 120ohm resistor and run new wires to somewhere?
***
Edit --- Found this on CRUISE CONTROL INSTALL tech doco ---
# Cruise Control Connector Pin out Information
Please note, the Wiring loom connector will have the Pin Numbers marked on both sides of the connector.
# 1 - Electronic Cluster Indicator
# 2 - Not Used - Not Connected
# 3 - Vehicle speed signal (From The Instrument Cluster - White Wire Speedo Sender Output)
# 4 - Stop lamp Switch feed (+12V when stop lamps are on)
# 5 - Command Signal
# 6 - Command Return Signal
# 7 - Ignition Switch Feed (+12V when Ignition key On)
# 8 - Not Used - Not Connected
# 9 - Deactivator Switch (On Brake Booster - +12V when Brakes NOT Depressed)
# 10 - Ground (-)
I guess I am looking at doing something d**k to the Command and Command Return signal. Could I just run a light weight (low resistance with any luck) wire from the #5 and #6 positions through a switch connected to a 120ohm resistor?
Am leaning towards splicing a couple of wires to #5 and #6 and putting a resistor and switch into the equation. Chances of blowing the whole thing to bits seems minimal, chances of it working seem okayish.
Where the hell is DATA MINE when you need him? |
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data_mine
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: |
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You need to put up the bat signal (a PM). 
Firstly, I think this is a BAD idea. Disabling the cruise control on clutch in, is a safety mechanism, in case of emergency. The clutch switch and brake light switch are design to disable cruise so the car won't try and run off with you should something bad happen.
Secondly, I'll help to answer you're questions...
#1 Replicate the 120ohm switch and just splice it into the wiring coming from the clock spring. Easy.
#2 I feel (as the clutch pedal deactivate is a safety feature) it may use the brake fail safety input on the CC unit. I don't have my wiring diagrams at hand (being at work), but I'd check that out. |
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fiend
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:35
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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BAD idea? What, from me? Never.
I see your point tho... And I could just rig up another brake switch to the clutch pedal easy enough and put it on the same circuit as the brake pedal works by cutting power...
Uhm - Am damn sure the original clutch switch doesn't do the same thing as the brake tho... Anyway, car isn't back from panel shop yet, and I still have to pick up a clutch cable, a couple of pins and some other bits and pieces...
Help Data, help...... 
Last edited by fiend on Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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data_mine
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Got my wiring diagrams out (for an EL).
The B (Black) and OY (Orange/Yellow Stripe) wires go from the clock spring all the way through to the CC module. They carry the button signals - which you've already got figured out above.
The brake fail safe signal comes into the CC unit on a X (Light Green) wire. The clutch fail safe comes into the CC on a GW (Green/White Stripe) wire. For auto's this switch is simply short circuited. |
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fiend
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, thanks.
*One further question---
What colours wires are coming out the brake booster and is it the same circuit to the factory clutch (12+ all the time, 0 when brake engaged?)
Interesting that for auto's it is short circuited, as this would mean it is opening a circuit on clutch application (similar to the brake booster...)?
I can't see anywhere on the list of inputs to the Cruise Controller for another closed > open circuit, so guess the circuit (and colour wires) you mention (above) are actually the same for the clutch pedal and the brake booster?
WHY then does it also use a 12+ on the brake application (brake bulb activation) as well as a separate source for brake booster? Maybe a double fail-safe for turning it off?
Ho hum... Will carry on contemplating then... No worries, thanks for your help and answering the call once more.
And your data mobile looks kinda more serious than the stinky old bat mobile.... |
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data_mine
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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There's the brake fail pressure switch (on the master cylinder), it's got a GR (green/red) and a X (light green_ wire to it.
There's the brake light switch (on the brake pedal), GR wire either side.
And the clutch switch GR one side and GW (green/white) the other.
In an auto the brake light switch takes over from the clutch switch going into the CC module. In a manual, the clutch switch is there also.
So there's four ways to disable cruise control.
- on/off button
- brake pressure switch
- clutch switch
- brake lights
Add a fifth way if you just want to stop it being active (coast button). |
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fiend
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:35
Posts: 776
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| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Sweet Databat. Good man... Have heard a rumour the the original clutch switch was a vacuum switch of some sort? Whatever...
I think someone has confused me (... yeah yeah ...) by saying that you can re-engage previous speed settings by pushing RES COAST after a clutch movement, but not after a brake movement?
Anyways, thanks heaps once again. You have not done enough to deter me from trying to hook up the clutch to the command line with suitable resistor however.
Let's face it - if you get into trouble you're going to hit the brake and / or keep the clutch depressed. As soon as brake is applied it'll turn off like normal anyway....
Cheers |
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MADXF
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
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| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
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Using the brake doesnt lose the memory of the last setting, I beleive that only happens if you use the 'off' button. Even then I dont know if the 'off' button will wipe its memory, I've never seen the need to turn it off once its been turned on, only coast and reset.
The only thing I kow that does take it memory is turning the car off. |
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TROYMAN
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| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| fiend wrote: | Sweet Databat. Good man... Have heard a rumour the the original clutch switch was a vacuum switch of some sort? Whatever..
Cheers |
only the ea,eb,and ed had vacuum/electric switches as most of the cc is vacuum operated.. |
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fiend
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:35
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| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahhhh - Cool! Thanks again everybody.... |
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fiend
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:35
Posts: 776
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Location: Wellington New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| MADXF wrote: | | Using the brake doesnt lose the memory of the last setting, .... |
Ahah, the tech doco on cruise install says slightly different (depending on which bit of it you read..!) and for some reason I cannot remember how it works as I just push buttons automatically now... My car is still at panel shop, so can't just go and try it out!
Thanks! |
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Senus
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Where is this actual document? All i see is a plethora of comments thanking Voxace for something im to stupid to find haha |
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