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bodes-sh
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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 Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Lukeyson wrote: | Well, I haven't ever pushed to get access to an AU to try. And my J2534 tool can't do J1850 PWM/SCP. The ELM should be able to, but usefl system discovery is much harder with the ELM - especially the slow ones.
Lukeyson |
well the elm i have is apparently the ver 1.2a one, i think that's also what it's got on the chip...any ideas on what software you would use to connect? the standard obd/2 stuff doesn't connect, like pcmscan, digimoto, etc just say they can't connect. you don't happen to know how the star testers or sct flash tuners connect do you? |
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abelouso
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Location: Inland Empire, California, USA Oustide Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Thank you very much for the quick response.
Test ID $02 didn't work. I used obd2crazy (wOBD) software to scan for response for mode 31 test IDs 00 - FF and turns out there are 3 test ids that my car responds to -
81
82
and
84
When engine is not running issuing 3181 - flashes the "check engine" light, and what appears to be execising relays (clicks are heard from under the hood and fuel pump runs bfeifly). When engine is running - 81 returns 00 00 22, which, as found out later, means test is not available or already running. Which puts 81 to be KOEO test.
With engine running, 3182 appears to start changing rpm and turning off cylinders, which I believe to be KOER test.
NOTE: issuing test request in mode $31 returns one of the outputs:
00 00 00 - probably means test started
00 00 22 - probably means test is valid but not available at this time (or already running)
00 00 12 - most likely an invalid test ID request.
Interesting side note: All requests to mode $31 return 7F as in:
3181 7F 31 81 00 00 00 - which is "bad" since I believed a 7F response to mean an invalid ID is requested... That's misleading because, now it make it uncertain for some modes to be able to tell if the request ID is valid...
As far as continues DTC - I am having no luck. My car does not seem to support PID 02 in for either OBDII module nor the PCM module, which is evident by 0100 or 220100 requests.
OBDII DTC mode 03 - returns no data, meaning no OBDII DTCs set.
I cannot figure out how to do the same for mode 22 of the PCM. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Special thanks to luckeyson for the information.
The reason (apologize for possible off-topic) I need to be able to run tests and read results is that I suspect a misfire in one of the cylinder that happens intermitently about once in 2-4 secs. I can distinctively hear the mis at about 2100 rpm from the exhaust and feel the car shake. However, I cannot pinpoint which cylinder is mis-firing and from what cause. Running tests and being able to see non-MIL (i.e. non-OBDII) DTCs, I think would help in pinpointing this problem.
Thank you. |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 894
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Hmm. Getting hardcore there I see. Are you looking up J2190? I suggest you do, it's got heaps of useful stuff in it. Mode $33 is the query for diagnostic results by test number, so you would tend to issue continuous Mode $33 requests after you did the Mode $31 trigger until the result changes. That's how you know when the Diag routine is complete.
I actually don't have anything on test 81.
02 = KOEO - Key On Engine Off
82 = KOER - Key On Engine Running
84 = Output Test Mode (OTM)
89 = Ignition Timing Test (Untested - no idea how to use yet)
8B = LPG System Test (Untested)
91 = Injection Electrical Test (Untested)
92 = Cylinder Contribution Test (Untested)
With DTC's, there are actually 2 methods. The std method is to issue a query to PID 0202 using Mode $22. The other method is a little bit sneakier and uses Mode $18 to issue a request for DTC's of status $00 to all Function groups $FF.
Lukeyson |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 894
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| bodes-sh wrote: | | Lukeyson wrote: | Well, I haven't ever pushed to get access to an AU to try. And my J2534 tool can't do J1850 PWM/SCP. The ELM should be able to, but usefl system discovery is much harder with the ELM - especially the slow ones.
Lukeyson |
well the elm i have is apparently the ver 1.2a one, i think that's also what it's got on the chip...any ideas on what software you would use to connect? the standard obd/2 stuff doesn't connect, like pcmscan, digimoto, etc just say they can't connect. you don't happen to know how the star testers or sct flash tuners connect do you? |
I have no idea to be honest. The ELM tools when they first get power scan for a response to basic OBD2 tests - like the 0100 query. It cycles through each protocol until it gets a response. If the tool doesn't auto-connect you can force it to connect as a protocol type. If you can force it to J1850 PWM that might help. But since the AU is not OBD2, I don't know if it would respond to any of the J1979 queries (like 0100) anyway. But from that point there may be other stuff that it could respond to. I don't really know.
Also, since OBD2 defines the port and pinouts via J1962, you might need to grab an AU workshop manual and see what pins the J1850 PWM diagnostic lines are presenting on in your Diagnostic port, and see if these match up with what J1962 say they are supposed to be. I'd heard somewhere that the AU presented them on the wrong pins.
I'm willing to come up with suggestions and theories because I'd like to see someone get the ELM to work on an AU, but it would all be a bit hit and miss.
Lukeyson |
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bodes-sh
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Lukeyson wrote: | | bodes-sh wrote: | | Lukeyson wrote: | Well, I haven't ever pushed to get access to an AU to try. And my J2534 tool can't do J1850 PWM/SCP. The ELM should be able to, but usefl system discovery is much harder with the ELM - especially the slow ones.
Lukeyson |
well the elm i have is apparently the ver 1.2a one, i think that's also what it's got on the chip...any ideas on what software you would use to connect? the standard obd/2 stuff doesn't connect, like pcmscan, digimoto, etc just say they can't connect. you don't happen to know how the star testers or sct flash tuners connect do you? |
I have no idea to be honest. The ELM tools when they first get power scan for a response to basic OBD2 tests - like the 0100 query. It cycles through each protocol until it gets a response. If the tool doesn't auto-connect you can force it to connect as a protocol type. If you can force it to J1850 PWM that might help. But since the AU is not OBD2, I don't know if it would respond to any of the J1979 queries (like 0100) anyway. But from that point there may be other stuff that it could respond to. I don't really know.
Also, since OBD2 defines the port and pinouts via J1962, you might need to grab an AU workshop manual and see what pins the J1850 PWM diagnostic lines are presenting on in your Diagnostic port, and see if these match up with what J1962 say they are supposed to be. I'd heard somewhere that the AU presented them on the wrong pins.
I'm willing to come up with suggestions and theories because I'd like to see someone get the ELM to work on an AU, but it would all be a bit hit and miss.
Lukeyson |
There is a pinout diagram here on fordmods, and basing on what the pin setup is on the obd plug on the end of the elm interface, the only pin that isn't there is the chassis ground. this is the pinout on the car
| scantool.net forums wrote: | I have been told
The AU falcon has OBD-II port and uses SCP (Standard Corporate Protocol) which is a part of the OBD-II standard
So it is
Pins Assignment
1
2 Bus +ve
3
4 Chassis Gnd
5 Signal Gnd
6
7 Iso Signal tx/rx
8
9
10 Bus -ve
11
12
13 eeprom
14
15
16 Battery Volts |
and i'm sure you know the pinout for the elm, but anyway
so, according to the elm
1
2 J1850 bus +
3
4
5 signal ground
6 CAN H
7 ISO K
8
9
10 J1850 bus -
11
12
13
14 CAN L
15 ISO L
16 Battery +
So any ideas on that? Or, would it just be a matter of getting into hyperterminal and seeing what responds...? |
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abelouso
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Location: Inland Empire, California, USA Oustide Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Thank you luckyson,
I am not looking at the standard.... as I am cheap and don't want to buy the standard.
I found out (onn accedent) how to lookup codes - it turns out to be mode $13 on my PCM...
so far the DTC is P1000. I unplugged MAF sensor and recieved MIL code P0113 which was duplicated in mode $13.
Do you have a copy of the sandard.
Thank you... |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 894
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Modes 13 and 18 appear to do similar things.
Mode 13 lets you do lookups to just the function groups (00 = Powertrain, 40 - Chassis, 80 = Body, C0 = Undefined, FF = all)
Mode 18 lets you do the same, but in addition you can query on a 'status' type - some DTC's can still be registered but not show a light for instance, or some DTC's self-clear after awhile, or be in a state of 'maturing'.
Google J2190_1.pdf and I suspect you may come up with something....
Lukeyson |
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abelouso
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Location: Inland Empire, California, USA Oustide Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:09 am Post subject: Output test mode |
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I successfully figured out how to run KOEO and KOER tests and read results. It turns out mode $33 followed by Test ID would provide results (one time) of the last test. My KOER test did not detect misfire. Its got to be something else.
Again, I appologize for possible off-topic, what commads do what things in output test mode (ID $84). I need to be able to turn fuel pump on for 8 seconds to measure maximum fuel pressure.
Thank you. |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 894
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: |
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I haven't ever tried to trigger individual items on the OTM. It just runs through some sort of routine itself and tests everything one by one, then reports back if there's a problem.
As for the question I missed on the AU, if the pins are right but the ELM still doesn't auto-detect a protocol, then there's not much more I can offer at the moment without further research.
However, there is a path that could get us more info.
I have some software here that can connect to an AU Ford (FMP) - it is available from www.motorcraft.com for a monthly fee - but it requires a J2534 type diagnostic tool that has support for J1850 PWM. I have a Drewtech Mongoose J2534 tool (~$300 USD) but it only has CAN and ISO. There is another Mongoose tool that does PWM, CAN and FEPS (so can do factory PCM flash updates using the FMP) - but therefore won't do ISO so can't work on BA Bosch 5.3 ABS Modules, Airbag modules or Park Aid Modules on the BA/BF/SX/SY.
There are quite a lot of other J2534 tools out there that might be useful that do all OBD2 protocols but they can be a bit expensive - the cheapest of which appears to be the EEpod LLC at $500 USD plus a $65 OBD2 cable.
With a J1850 PWM J2534 Tool, FMP software, an OBD2 Y-Cable, and an ELM327, you can issue commands using the FMP software, capture what happens using a filtered atma on the ELM, and work out what's going on. That's how all the good stuff is done these days....
Lukeyson |
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abelouso
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Location: Inland Empire, California, USA Oustide Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Of course, if you have software, one could always dis-assemble the software itslef and figure out what codes it sends to the device. Since, most likely it is an OOP, all reads/writes are performed using one or two functions and all command strings are most likely declared beforehand and could be stored in the data portion of the executable.... |
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pellajl
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 29
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Has anyone used GLM Software's ODB 2007 application?
www.glmsoftware.com
It looks very interesting and it is developed in Melbourne.
Regards
John |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 894
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: |
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We know about it. Graham McKechnie has at least had a good read of this thread and knows about us too.
I know that it's OBD2 J1979 software, so it doesn't have custom manufacturer stuff in it. I haven't actually seen it myself to give you my impression of it. But I do know that he's customised it for the obdpro tool, as well as being ELM compatible.
Lukeyson |
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rodgej2382
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Location: clarkston Oustide Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ya know that ptdiag (pass thru diagnostics) someone was talkin about up top.. well i have it. so if anyone needs it contact me |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 894
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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You've got at least one PM I would imagine.....just in case you only hit this page publicly and don't logon to check your PMs.
Lukeyson |
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pellajl
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 29
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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A couple of weeks ago I ordered one of those Chinese ELM327 cheapies from eBay. In total, I paid approximately $30 including postage. The unit is a no name brand with a USB interface.
I had a expectation that this units was inferior in quality and performance. (Didn’t matter, it was a $30 experiment!!).
To cut a long story short, I downloaded OBD 2007 from GLM Software and installed the trial activation key. I had some drama connecting and once connected, I didn’t really know how to drive the application effectively so I sort assistance from Graham McKechnie. I sent Graham a couple log files and we exchanged a few emails. I was had issues connecting and with connection speeds.
At this point, I wasn’t sure whether it was my laptop, the Chinese clone or some other obscure issue.
Since I lived in Melbourne, Graham suggested we meet and we could test both vehicles (Ford BA XR8 MkII – 2005 and Mazda 6 MPS 2005.
Graham had never worked with a Chinese clone before and suggested we meet to do some tests. This was good because I knew that Graham’s laptop worked. Graham also brought along a Scantool ELMscan USB and ODBPro unit as reference points for the test.
Graham was able to connect to both vehicles with his software and ELM units. The Falcon reported support for PIDs # 0x03, 0x04, 0x05, 0x06, 0x07, 0x08, 0x09, 0x0C, 0x0D, 0x0E, 0x0F, 0x10, 0x11, 0x14, 0x15 and 0x18. (I have a question about PIDs 0x10 & 0x11 later on).
The Mazda reported support for twice as many PIDs. I won’t list them here though.
Both vehicles reported support for ISO 15765-4 (CAN 11/500).
We had our baseline, now came the Chinese clone’s turn…..
We connected up the clone and it identifies itself as an ELM327 v1.2a unit. (Yeah right!). We put the clone through its paces and from memory it was reading somewhere between 5 and 10 PID/sec. The interface speed was set at 9600.
So the next was to try to push the clone until it broke essentially by pushing the interface speed higher and higher. Before we did that, we dismantled the unit to see if there were any jumpers so we could set the default interface speed to 38400. No jumper! Oh well, I thought to myself, we are stuck with 9600. The build quality was excellent and the PCB is housed in a strong aluminium box.
Not to be deterred, we set the software to select it’s own speed and the software connected at 500000. See line 81 of the log file below. Started the engine and the data just poured in without fault. The software was reading between 19 and 20 pids / sec. We even set the ELM327 time out value to 25ms, still couldn’t break the clone.
Conclusion, if you want a cheap ELM327 clone that works very well, just get one of these:
http://cgi.ebay..com.hk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330265698651&ih=014&category=43989&tc=photo
Graham was a great help. Thanks Graham……
I have a question in relation to PIDs 0x10 (Air Flow Rate from Mass Airflow Sensor) and 0x11 (Absolute Throttle Position).
The Falcon reports 0x10 and 0x11 as supported PIDs but no data is ever received from the ECU. The Mazda supports the same PIDs and yet, data is received from the ECU. This eliminates the software and in the clone interface unit.
Has anyone else got or seen the same issue in BA Falcons?
Regards
John
1 Connection: Saturday, 30 August 2008 12:15:24 PM
2 OBD 2007 PC Ver: 1.0.13.96 15:24.625
3 Com Port : COM4 15:24.625
4 Baud Rate: 9600 15:24.625
5 Current Units: Metric 15:24.625
6 Country: Australia 15:24.625
7 SENT ATZ 15:24.625
8 SENT RESET 15:24.640
9 ATZ - a*** 15:25.562
10 ELM327 v1.2a - a*** 15:25.562
11 SENT ATSP0 15:25.562
12 SENT SET PROTOCOL 15:25.562
13 ATSP0 - a*** 15:25.625
14 OK - a*** 15:25.625
15 SENT ATE0 15:25.625
16 SENT ECHO OFF 15:25.625
17 ATE0 - a*** 15:25.671
18 OK - a*** 15:25.671
19 SENT ATL0 15:25.671
20 SENT LINE FEED OFF 15:25.671
21 OK - a*** 15:25.703
22 SENT ATST06 15:25.703
23 SENT SET TIMEOUT 15:25.703
24 OK - a*** 15:25.750
25 SENT ATRV 15:25.750
26 SENT READ VOLTAGE 15:25.750
27 14.1V - a*** 15:25.796
28 SENT AT@1 15:25.796
29 SENT READ MANUFACTURER 15:25.796
30 OBDII to RS232 Interpreter - a*** 15:25.859
31 0100 15:25.859
32 SENT READ PIDS_0x20 15:25.859
33 SEARCHING... - a*** 15:26.125
34 41 00 BF 9F B9 10 15:26.125
35 READING PIDS_0x20 15:26.125
36 011C 15:26.125
37 SENT READ OBDREQUIREMENTS 15:26.125
38 NO DATA - a*** 15:26.187
39 0113 15:26.187
40 READING O2 SENSOR LOCATION 15:26.187
41 NO DATA - a*** 15:26.234
42 0600 15:26.234
43 SENT READ ONBOARD TIDS 0x20 15:26.234
44 46 00 00 00 00 00 15:26.312
45 READING ONBOARDMONITORING TIDS 0x20 15:26.312
46 0900 15:26.312
47 NO DATA - a*** 15:26.375
48 08000000000000 15:26.375
49 48 00 00 00 00 00 15:26.453
50 READING ONBOARDMONITORINGTEST TIDS 0x20 15:26.453
51 SENT ATDP 15:26.453
52 SENT DESCRIBE PROTOCOL 15:26.453
53 AUTO, ISO 15765-4 (CAN 11/500) - a*** 15:26.515
54 SENT ATDPN 15:26.515
55 SENT DESCRIBE PROTOCOL BY NUMBER 15:26.515
56 A6 15:26.546
57 0101 15:26.546
58 SENT SERVICE 01 - PID 01 WHILE INITIALIZING 15:26.546
59 NO DATA - a*** 15:26.609
60 020000 15:26.609
61 SENT READ FREEZEFRAMEPIDS_0x20 15:26.609
62 NO DATA - a*** 15:26.671
63 050001 15:26.671
64 SENT READ TIDS_0x20 15:26.671
65 NO DATA - a*** 15:26.734
66 READ STOPPED AUTOMATICALLY 15:26.734
67 SENT ATH1 15:26.734
68 SENT HEADERS ON 15:26.734
69 OK - a*** 15:26.765
70 SET HEADERS ON COMPLETE 15:26.765
71 0100 15:26.765
72 NO DATA 15:26.828
73 SENT ATH0 15:26.828
74 SENT HEADERS OFF 15:26.828
75 OK - a*** 15:26.859
76 SET HEADERS OFF COMPLETE 15:26.859
77 READ ECU INFO FOR CRA COMPLETE 15:26.859
78 SENT ATBRT0F 15:26.859
79 OK - a*** 15:26.890
80 SENT ATBRD08 15:26.890
81 BAUD CHANGED TO 500000 15:26.921
82 OK - a*** 15:26.921
83 SENT 15:27.000
84 SENT CR ACK FOR NEW BAUDRATE 15:27.000
85 ELM327 v1.2a - a*** 15:27.000
86 BAUD CHANGE SUCCESSFULL 15:27.031
87 OK - a*** 15:27.031
88 BAUD CHANGE COMPLETED - READ STOPPED 15:27.031 |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 894
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: |
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So you are John? It's coming together for me now. Graham mentioned the success you had dynamically changing the baud rate on the chinese clone. I think auMatt had only ever tried the AT PP 0C method for setting the baud on boot which didn't appear to be supported.
And you're right, I've not receive data on 0x10 and 0x11 from a BA either. The BF sends out 0x11 but not 0x10. However, I think most of my data-gathering scans have been Key On Engine Off for J1979 stuff. I looked at a few Mode 22 scans (since the J1979 Mode01 stuff is replicated in the base PIDS of Mode22) and it looks like it's the same there too.
Luke |
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pellajl
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 29
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yes Luke it's me......
It is a little disappointing that the BA doesn't output at the 0x10 information. Without this information, it is impossible to log fuel consumption performance.
I can't believe the Ford dealers don't have access to this information though their WDS tool. Do you know if they do?
If they do, there must be a command that enables /disbles the data streams. Have you ventured down this path?
Regards |
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aumatt
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Age:35
Posts: 87
Joined: 25 May 2005
Location: Melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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My chinese clone switches to 500k using GLM software. I think I will be purchasing a copy, looks like great software.
Matt |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 894
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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220900 is MAP pressure sensor, Volts, 2 Bytes, Div 1024
220914, 0915 and 0916 are the 3 Accelerator Position Sensors, Volts, 2 Bytes, Div 1024
220917 and 220918 are the 2 Throttle Position Sensors, Volts, 2 Bytes, Div 1024
22091a ETC Desired, 2 Bytes, Degrees, Div 512
22091b is Accelerator Pedal Position, 1 Byte, Integer, As is
22093c ETC Actual, 2 Bytes, Degrees, Div 512
220945 Another MAP sensor, kPA, as is (Is this Boosted only?)
22114a is Intake Air Temp, 1 Byte, Voltage, Scaling depends on the car, I think it will be Mult 15625 then Div 1000000
Of interest to you though may be this one:
221410, Fuel Pulse Width, 2 Bytes, Seconds, Mult 8 then Div 1000000
Lukeyson |
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| (c)2002-2008 Matti Jones and Brad Evans |
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