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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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 Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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OK
But with my curiosity piqued I can't help but keep investigating - you know me.
The reason the seat base may be expensive is that it has the smarts in it in the form of a Memory Module (aka the Memory Seat Controller or MSC). This controller not only remembers the seat position, but also the Pedal Box location, and on some models the Mirror Dip function - which is why there are so many plugs under the drivers seat.
And THAT has got me curious.
As you're aware, I'm looking at the BEM/H upgrade and Dash Loom anyway for Auto Climate Control. And yes, the BEM/H is needed as the BEM'L doesn't have the pins. While I can see the DTC's that are set of the Memory Seat option is not fitted, I haven't yet found the WDS codes to turn this on or off in the BEM.
The BEM communicates to the Memory Module on BEM pins J2/22 and J2/23 on lines 268 and 267 to Memory Module pins 12 and 10. My guess is the only data transmitted is regards the key fobs - the first 2 of which can be used to recall positions.
I am quite curious about the Rear Vision Mirror dip recall function, that requires the Mirror Control Module and a connection to the Reverse Lamp Switch in the harness.
The question is going to be which models, and which Memory Modules can do the Mirror Memory Dip and/or if there is a high-level Mirror Controller required to trigger mirror dip.
I manully dip my mirrors at work all the time to reverse into parking spots, and will often use it to reverse park to avoid the gutter.
I'm going to ask around a bit more about this feature.
Lukeyson |
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Nicko
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: |
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yeah its a feature id liek to have also
They deleted the memory seats from teh range late last year as they were too costly and i believe had a few minor issues |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 841
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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I started another thread, and answered some of my own question by looking at the Ford site to see the specifications and options.
Looks like getting the Loom and Seat Base from a Fairmont Ghia is the way to go. There may also be some need to get the Mirrors and Mirror Controller off them as well, but that depends on whether the part numbers match up. I'm asking around on that topic.
Lukeyson |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 841
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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I've put the pricing request out to FTG for the bits even if they don't have any at the moment. We'll see what pricing they come back with.
Lukeyson |
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Nicko
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Luke,
having a look thru a Ford ISG (training document) for the g220 etc.
It appears you will need to buy the seat base as this has teh memory module on it, and button sfor reverse dip and stores the position of the mirrors and the seat.
So you will need to put memory seat in your vehicle for it to work.
Expect to pay Drug Money for a seat base as they are worth a couple of grand from ford!
Also - you may need to install adjustable pedals as these are standard on all vehicles fitted with memory seat.
Its definantly doable but it will require you to basically rip the whole car apart and install a fairmont ghia interior loom, and all the appropriate hardware and then a complete re initialisation by the WDS at your local dealership
Also with the CC conversion - the him i steh same but will need to be programmed by ford and set to ACC rather than MCC (auto or manual climate control) |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 841
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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OK, first thing, how do I get my hands on these training documents you mention? I'm working from the Workshop Manual only at this stage. I think I saw some training manuals pop through eBay recently, but couldn't bid on them at the time.
My big thing at the moment is finding out the actual hex values for the PIDs (Mode and Number). WIth those I can pull values out of any of the CAN Modules using my ELM327 scanntool using a Hyperterm session.
Also, yes, I'm aware of all the things you mention, but am uneducated on price for the seat stuff.
Regarding the MCC/ACC conversion, a new ACC ICC from Ford is just on $4k on it's own. The rest of the bits made the conversion something like $6k with new parts. That FTG do it from 2nd hand parts for $1750 makes it now affordable, especially if I can sell a Premium ICC with Colour TFT and Six Stacker to recoup some of the cost (and by my reckoning I should get about half of the cost back).
Thank goodness for FTG eh? I've sent emails to a few other 'online' wreckers with a request for pricing on all those parts, and not one has responded. Suffice to say that FTG will almost certainly get my business when I convert mid year. (Yes, I used the word 'when'...)
Re: the seat, the bits that I've requested pricing on are:
(1) 8-Way Seat Base with Memory from Fairmont Ghia including Memory Module and Motors (6-Way memory seats don't have Mirror memory or Dip)
(2) RHS Main Loom from Fairmont Ghia (Which should give me the Rear Footwell Loom as well.)
Now, since it's not immediately clear how the Mirrors provide feedback for their position, I've also requested pricing on the following:
(1) RHS Drivers Door Loom from Fairmont Ghia
(2) RHS Mirror from Fairmont Ghia
(3) Mirror Controller from Fairmont Ghia
I've had a good look at the Dash Loom and how it runs - changing it over is not as hard as I first thought.
I've also had a good look at the RHS Main Loom and it too is concealed by removeable plastic and doesn't look too hard to access - except perhaps for the spur that cuts across behind the drivers seat to the Console for Auto Trans and to the LHS B Pillar for the crash sensor and interface to the LHS Main Loom.
Mind you, my original run at MCC/ACC conversion stalled due to pricing. Any attempt to do a Powered Memory Seat upgrade my fall foul to the same fate.
If I get any numbers back, I'll start a separate thread on any Memory Seat work I do. I have a tendency to drift as I learn more and more.
And I did notice the pedal box issue as well, and am prepared to cop a DTC error if that's my worst penalty....
Lukeyson |
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Nicko
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Yeah - The dash loom is a pain in teh a** as you have to tear the whole dash apart!
You already have auto headlamps yeah?
Next time im at FTG ill do some research with darren and find out what parts are different for mirror/memory seats. |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: |
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No, I only have the BEM/L. How I wish now that I'd optioned that in - I had nearly every other option under the sun besides that one. Now I know why it cost so much.
Lukeyson |
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Nicko
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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yep - Thats why i specifically waited to get a luxury pack xr!
As you will need to buy a new combo switch too! |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 841
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Multifunction Switch is included in the FTG $1750 upgrade kit i noticed, if I didn't mention that before.
Lukeyson |
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fnp
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Ouch... I've been wanting to do basically the same conversion for a while, didn't realize the cost would be well into the thousands with all the little bits and peices you need.. |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 841
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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So, my mate's mate has reported back that the Fairmont Ghia mirrors have different part numbers to other Falcons. So odds on they have some extra smarts in them.
FTG reported back a ballpark figure of around $1500 for bits including mirrors, looms (Main and Door Loom that is) seat base and Mirror switch. They don't have any at the moment though.
Lukeyson |
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Nicko
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah - If anyone was going to have it it would be darren!
i cant believe how many FPV's he has wrecked but hasnt wrecked a GHIA yet!!
Ill have to stir him up about that! |
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fnp
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| Lukeyson wrote: | So, my mate's mate has reported back that the Fairmont Ghia mirrors have different part numbers to other Falcons. So odds on they have some extra smarts in them.
FTG reported back a ballpark figure of around $1500 for bits including mirrors, looms (Main and Door Loom that is) seat base and Mirror switch. They don't have any at the moment though.
Lukeyson |
I'm quite sure the passenger side mirror contains the ambient air temp sensor.. |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 841
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: |
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You're right, it does.
However with regard to the Mirror Memory and Dip, it's not clear how the Memory Module under the drivers seat knows where the mirrors currently point, to know which direction the motors have to be driven to get to the 'saved' mirror location.
I am theorising that the Fairmont Ghia has some addtional smarts to provide this capability, but it's not clear yet.
Lukeyson |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 841
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Some updates.
MCC to ACC is going ahead. Final quoting is completed, my final lease period is up, and the cost of the mods is going into the cost of rolling over to the next period.
Also happening is a front brake upgrade (the BA fronts are god Aweful and have been scaring me since new with horrendous fade), XForce Mild steel cat-back exchaust and a CAPA tuner.
I've discovered I have a Black BEM (2003 BA XR8, Premium Sound, No Auto Lights). My wife has a Green BEM (2004 SX terriory Ghia, Auto Climate Control, etc etc). Someone PM'd me a messages saying they had a standard ICC with auto-lights, and they had a Blue BEM. And Nicko has got himself a white BEM from somewhere, but I don't know the details of that one.
I have been on a hunt for Fairmont Ghia bits, but NOBODY has them, so I'll sit on that for awhile. It is encouraging (to me at least) that there are 1000's of cars going under the hammer here in Newcastle thanks to the flooding, so some Ghia bits may become available soon.
I few people have done this mod and let me know of late, but not too many pictures. So as I progress I might post stuff up here.
Lukeyson |
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fnp
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| Please do. I'd like to do this conversion myself eventually. |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 841
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Did some trial plug checks today, and trying to inspect more detail about what BEM I have. Some guy posted on FordForums that the Black BEM has a 'Blue ID' and a 'Green ID' version. The Black BEM was to support a Car Alarm apparently, and the Green ID version supports hi-series Audio.
Now, whether that means it also supports Dual-Zone Climate Control is another question. I might even give it a go before committing to the Green BEM.
But I have stumbled on another issue as a result.
On removing the connectors from the BEM, the Car Alarm goes off.
Does anyone know how to disable the Car Alarm? It was optioned by Ford, so I'm assuming it's a Factory alarm (unless it was a Dealer Special..!)...
Lukeyson |
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data_mine
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Before doing anything, turn the key to the run position first.
(i.e. same procedure as if you need to change the battery). |
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