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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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 Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:57 am Post subject: BA - MCC to ACC Conversion |
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This is all theoretical, so someone shoot me down early or tell me they've done it and put me out of my misery. (MCC = Manual Climate Control, ACC - Auto Climate Control)
I've started looking at wiring diagrams (BA Falcon Manuals on CD are $15 on eBay including postage if anyone is interested) and reading on how things are put together, and have the following thoughts.
The HIM and HVAC look to be the same between all models - HIM - HVAC Integrated Module (Controller), HVAC - Heating Ventilation AirCon (Plastic Box'o'vents). - except perhaps for the RHS Airmix Motor Driver. I can theorise that either a different HVAC is used to drive both LHS/RHS in MCC mode, or that simply the same HVAC is used but LHS/RHS motors are both driven equally while in MCC mode.
The BEM and ICC, however, are all different. Swapping these units requires a reprogram via the WPS, reinserting the Cabin temperature Sensor (CTS) Calibration Factor, and ICC/Audio Module Security Reconfiguration - all done via a WDS, which can only be done by Ford. The CTS is a non-serviceable item and is found only in the ACC ICC, so even if they fail you'll need a replacement ICC.
Of greater relevance, however, is the existence of wiring harnesses and other sensors:
(1) The outside Ambient Temperature sensor - appears to be in the L/H Mirror of all Falcons, whether used or not.
(2) Sun Load Sensor - in the dash somewhere, looks like it is used for both ACC and Auto Lights on/Off, which is controlled by the BEM
(3) PCM connection to Engine Coolant Temperature
(4) Other interface details, from the PCM via the CAN
Why bother with all this? Well, I don't know. I have a Premium ICC already, so the cost of an ACC ICC/BEM from a wreckers could potentially be offset by reselling my Premium MCC ICC/BEM should this all work. And given that the 'Luxury' pack from Ford cost in excess of $4000 (and asn't available with the MkI XR8 I have) when the car gets handed over to the missus at the end of the lease she'd probably appreciate the climate control.
In the meantime, I'm doing some work on integrating a reverse camera and CarPC into the ICC, so I'll take the time to try and find out if things like Sunload sensors are onboard, and see if I can't make sense of some of the wiring harness via the diagrams.
Maybe watch this space, or maybe not......
Lukeyson
Last edited by Lukeyson on Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total |
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twirqurky
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Wow...
Losta big words...
Mate, take photos, keep a log of whats done and amke it into a doco! |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Mate, the factory manual is a TLA nightmare (Three Letter Acronym)
I noticed there's some TLA's I failed to explain, so I'll rip out some of the 'translation's that are on page 412-04-3 of the manual and put them here:
HIM - HVAC Integrated Module
HVAC - heating, Ventilation and Aircon
ACC - Auto Climate Control
MCC - Manual Climate Control
HTR - Heating System Only.
BEM - Body Electronic Module, embedded in the ICC
CAN - Controller Area Network (If you're an IT person, think og the Car version of a LAN or WAN)
PCM - Powertrain Control Module
ICC - Interior Command Centre (Screen, Controls, IR Receiver, CD Players etc)
WDS - Worldwide Diagnostic System
Lukeyson |
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Nicko
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Yeah apparently it sjust connecting a loom and plugging in your icc with bem
Heard this from a mate who was looking into doing it also |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Hmm.
OK, learning more. The BEM/ICC swapout isn't a swap-and-go option. The BEM controls the Transceiver Lock Assembly and the Remote Keyfob receiver (The IR port above the screen) which implies that the BEM is keyed to your keys and remote keyfob.......which would require a WDS to reprogram.
Also, the PCM sends a 'challenge' to the BEM, which must respond with the correct values, or the car won't start. So a BEM replacement effectively immobilises your car in more ways than just one! A WDS tool, once again, is required to fix this.
The combined Sun Load/twilight sensor doesn't appear to be fitted to non ACC cars, so I'll have to find one of those. I'll be confirming this with a friend who has a MCC BF XR6T with auto-lights-off so has the Sun Load/Twilight Sensor.
Also, it now looks like the PCM has to be reprogrammed too, to send the 'engine coolant' and 'cylinder count' parameters to the HIM.
I can see that the instrument cluster is also on the CAN and is responsible for sending stuff to the ICC - like the Traction Control light and the ODO. Hey, that's way cool! The implication, however, is that I'm not sure if the Cluster has to be reprogrammed or is that data is coming across the CAN anyway.
The BEM also controls the auto-lights-on and the seat-memory, so with a a BEM/H (Hi spec BEM) these things could potentially be fitted as well - although you'd need an auto-lights-on switch on your indicator stalk, and the appropriate seats/switches to drive memory seats......
Lukeyson
Last edited by Lukeyson on Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:02 am, edited 2 times in total |
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xpression
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| the HIM also has different programming in it too, so it would need to be reflashed with the WDS, and the air mix shaft is different and has a different motor for MCC and ACC |
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Macca
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Ford and Mazda are currently updating, it is called MDS for Mazda and I am unsure what it is called for Ford (Maybe FDS), basically they are the same thing, Mazda dealers have to purchase the Toughbook laptop version and Ford I think are just getting the little PDA.
Basically it users a networked module which plugs into the OBD port, which looks like the exact module Landrover uses, the Landrover setup called Testbook just uses a standard laptop, Windows XP and the required software (Which also has WDS software, which isn't as good as Testbooks).
We have a new MDS at work, just it hasn't been fully unpacked and setup.
BTW The current Mazda WDS software we get also contains all current Ford info too, but I haven't tried using it on anything other than a re-badged Mazda. |
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xpression
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| pds is fords new 1... its not a replacement for wds rather a smaller unit purely for diagnostics and not for much module reprogramming etc. it also doesnt have the support for advanced multimeter, tailshaft balancing etc that the wds supports |
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Macca
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| xpression wrote: | | pds is fords new 1... its not a replacement for wds rather a smaller unit purely for diagnostics and not for much module reprogramming etc. it also doesn't have the support for advanced multimeter, tailshaft balancing etc that the wds supports |
After using WDS at a Ford dealership and currently at a Mazda dealership, I have found WDS is way behind the eight ball, Landrovers Testbook which includes a hand held T4 is way more advanced and far quicker to use, and it has been around heaps longer in Australia than WDS (Testbook also contains WDS software, but I haven't got around to seeing what it can do yet).
I am guessing because Ford Australia will be using the little PDA version it isn't taking over from WDS.
As soon as we setup the MDS and use it I will have to remember to post on what it is like, I haven't bothered to read up on it yet.
PS. I hate oil leaking piece of s**t Landrovers but the diags equipment is A1.
Anyway they is a chance that a Mazda dealership might be able to do Ford Australia WDS updates, as the update discs appear to be the same and Ford info is everywhere. |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Available everywhere?
Like from a discrete online source somewhere perhaps......?
Lukeyson |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| xpression wrote: | | the HIM also has different programming in it too, so it would need to be reflashed with the WDS, and the air mix shaft is different and has a different motor for MCC and ACC |
OK, I can see what you are referring to now, with the Drivers Side Airmix Actuator and Dual-Zone Sub harness being the main differences. However, the workshop manual doesn't cover the difference between the Dual-Zone ACC Airmix Shaft and the Single-Zone MCC version, especially regarding removal and installation on page 412-02-27.
It's not clear, for instance, if the Single-Zone solution is a single shaft, or if it is a double-shaft that engages in the middle. I wouldn't imagine that these would have a part number at Ford would they?
Also, I guess I forgot to mention that the HIM needed to be reprogrammed. While the ICC and BEM need to be replaced (unless you have a BEM/H already), the existing HIM and PCM need to be reconfigured via the WDS tool ,yes.
The parts list is growing. So far we have:
* ACC ICC with BEM/H
* Sunload/twilight Sensor (Indicator Stalk if you want to enable auto-lights-off). WIth no sensor, system assumes full daylight I believe.
* Ambient Temp Sensor in L/H rearview Mirror (at this stage we're assuming it is a component of ALL L/H Rearview mirrors, but this needs to be confirmed.)
* Split(?) Airmix Actuator Shafts for HVAC
* Drivers Airmix Actuator
* Divers Airmix Actuator SubHarness
* WDS reprogram of HIM for ACC operation
* WDS Reprogram of BEM to recode to keys and keyfob
* WDS Reprogram of PCM to recode to BEM and to enable ACC data on the CAN Bus
* WDS Reload of CTS Calibration factor to BEM
* WDS Recode of ICC and Audio Security Module
Lukeyson |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: |
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A bit of trivia in my travels through the manual.
The Wiper/Wash operation is slightly different between a BEM/L and a BEM/H. I guess this confirms that I have a BEM/L then.
The BEM/L operates the washer motor only for as long as the user holds the washer operation active on the wiper stalk. The unit then does three wipes and stops.
The BEM/H operates the washer for 1.2 seconds, no matter how long the stalk is depressed (although you can hold it down to operate the washer for more than 1.2 seconds), then does the same 3 wipes.
Also, the BEM/H can report the status of the Washer bottle via the CAN Bus. Smart.
It's also curious that the BEM/H is also required to power the Analogue Clock on the Dash. I've read reports elsewhere that there is no harness for the clock. Is this only for non-premium audio installations, or have people tried installing the clock on a Premium-Audio system? After all, the footwell light harness is in place when the Premium Audio system is installed, so I'm not taking a ridiculous leap of conjecture here.
Lukeyson |
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Macca
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Lukeyson wrote: | Available everywhere?
Like from a discrete online source somewhere perhaps......?
Lukeyson |
Hmm as the Ford/Mazda WDS use a special non PC standard hardware it would probably be senseless to get that software (? But I could get if you really wanted it  )
When the MDS is up and running I will check out the software to see if it can do Ford Australia programing, if so I will copy the software and you might be able to get hold of one of those diagnostic connectors, I did see them available on the web somewhere.
Tomorrow I will have to check out the Landrover Testbook and the MDS to see what they can do, as they use the same VCM (I think that is the name) diagnostic connector.
"xpression" might remember what the diagnostic connector is called, the same one is required for Ford's PDS (PDA) |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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It looks like the trickiest bit about the BA is that it has both a CAN and ISO interface in the connector. I've actually found a bit of software that might prove useful:
http://www.obd-2.com/
They can even sell you the appropriate cables, although it would take me quite a bit to get confident enough to give it a try.
Lukeyson |
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GlennBA
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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AWC do it..  |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Luke's latest discovery - a company is now importing (as of Jan 2006) the some Scantool kit into Australia, which is basically an ODBII to Serial converter that works with a bunch of apps, including a bunch of open source and free apps. Checkout www.scantool.net
The Elmscan 5 unit is a multi protocol unit so can do both ISO 9141 and ISO 15765-4 (CAN).
There was also some great info up on Wikipedia that I found useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II
Now, I wonder if there is anyway to trigger 'Parameter Reset' (Page 303-14-64) so the the BEM/HIM/PCM can all train up to one another....
Lukeyson |
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senna*xrt
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ok the boys in service and pre-delivery have been asked whether this can b done, and they say it took them three days to find out it would cost the same amount in man hours and parts, as it would to buy a car with the dual zone cc, my recommendation is DONT BOTHER! |
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xpression
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| yeh thats if your paying $65 an hour for service labour.. if your buying yourself a carton u save hundreds...ill find my notes on PDS/WDS And post them here |
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Lukeyson
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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Mate, in this instance, it's not so much about the destination, it's more about the journey. But thanks for the words of encouragement.
I'm pretty keen to do a Bill of Materials now and find out part numbers and pricing from Ford themselves, just to see how much damage this thing will really do.
In regards to the 'Parameter Reset' step above, I'm a bit worried about the 'Enter Security Access' menu option on the WDS that takes 10 minutes to access. I mean, what's that 10 minutes all about anyway? If there's some encryption and/or challenged hash authentication mechanism, there's no chance of using a non-ford tool at all.
In the meantime, I'll continue on oblivious for the moment as to how hard this project might really be.
Lukeyson |
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