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Engineering the CAPA Powerdyne Supercharger
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-GAS-MAN-
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: Engineering the CAPA Powerdyne Supercharger

Gday everyone, ive just bought a fantastic 97mdl supercharged fairmont rig, its quick, its had alot of work done and i got it for a reasonabe price. But, the car isnt insurable unless its got an engineers cert, now rego isnt a problem, but before i use it as my daily i am after an engineers certificate. Does anyone have experience with having a CAPA Powerdyne or similar kit engineered? Whats required, apart from the kit itself correctly fitted, i know an emissions test is required. Can someone point me in the best direction for a pocket friendly certificate If i cant get the car engineered the supercharger has to come off :'( Thanks in advance Matt

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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:09 am Post subject:

I know there is a lot of work involved, ive done a lot so far, i know what else is needed but the more i read the less possible it all seems. And i have read a lot! So far the car is running: i6, stock motor, rising rate reg, dual fuel pumps (one under bonnet or something) Powerdyne SC with 9psi at the moment, considering 6. Pacemaker extractors 2.5 inch exhaust, twin at rear. custom 3 inch intake with big bov (stock intake fitted at the mo) straight through cat, dont get me started here The cat will def need to be replaced, no questions here. The kit itself shouldnt be too far off being engineerable, i assUme (get it, a-u-me, it makes an a out of you and me)... Moving on Is it within the realms of a few thousand dollars, garanteed? or am i chasing my own tail? Thanks Matt Last edited by -GAS-MAN- on Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total

TerroristGHIA
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:28 am Post subject:

PM AXR88U, he is an Engineer and should be able to help. I believe CAPA made sure their kits were ADR compliant, so maybe contact them as well. Brett

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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:23 am Post subject:

An engineers cert from NSW isnt transferrable to Vic according to Vicroads unless the rules have changed recently. Search for VASS signatories on the Vicroads website and start calling around and asking what they require.

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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:50 am Post subject:

Why not change insurance companys? JustCar didn't mention/ask anything about engineering the blower when I took insurance with them.

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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:54 am Post subject:

twr7cx: the issue is that because the car has it, even though they cover it, its not roadworthy, hence not insurable Thanks to the other guys Does anyone else know anything? Matt Last edited by -GAS-MAN- on Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:54 am Post subject:

Just cars state that they wont cover you unless your car is roadworthy according to your state authority. A supercharged falcon isnt RWC according to Vicroads as it isnt engineered. edit: too slow.

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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject:

Dansedgli wrote:

/snip

edit: too slow.

It had to be one of us

on another note, i am having a mechanic scrape out the mess at the front of my head gasket and silicone it up, he says he has done 200odd cars that way and not had any problems..

It may be a bandaid, but for the mean time i am strapped for cash, so it has to do

I refitted the stock CAPA induction pipe with plumb back, wow that sucks compared to the 3inch intake that was custom made with a bov

I am having the custom pipe modded to hook up the the plumb back, legal and more power! Well, legal, for the engineers cert i am chasing in two weeks time

Wow today worked out well

f**k me dead, blown cars rock!
Matt

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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject:

in WA you can get use the dyno sheet, that shows the AirFuel ratio. if the AFR is good, then they could it as the emissions test

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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject:

I'm pretty sure that CAPA would have paperwork for emissions compliance. If not its not hard to pass an emissions test for ADR37/00. In NSW the RTA does testing for free. Slotted front brake rotors would'nt hurt either, so you can show some sort of brake upgrade. You would more than likely need a Vicroads certified engineer to do you a report. I know that NSW only accepts report from NSW RTA Signatories.

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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject:

Hey gasman, best of luck with it all mate! I know we discussed all this via PM a while back, but did you research any of this before you bought the car? Done any costings on the emissions tests, engineers costs and then costs of changes required?

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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject:

Matt, Getting a setup like yours engineered isn't all that hard...i'm going through the process of getting my turbocharged v8 NC engineered and haven't hit any hurdles so far...biggest issue for me is upgrading my brakes...if you need a hand, and your car is the car i think it is... i'm local so if you need a hand just yell out

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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject:

Sweet, thanks everyone, esp BlownNC (Rick V. mentioned your car the other day). Yeah i researched it all before i got it, made sure the kit was complete. All i need for my roadworthy is a 2.5" cat (the one fitted is a straight through job Headgasket is being 'band-aided' for $80 in BGO Have to stick the wheels i have off my other EL on it so Roney wont crucify me Thanks everyone Matt

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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject:

twr7cx wrote:

Why not change insurance companys? JustCar didn't mention/ask anything about engineering the blower when I took insurance with them.

Insurance companies will cover you if the modifcations are legal - ie roadworthy (as it has been said).

Interested to see in how you go with it all -GAS-MAN-

Emissions test is ~$3K JFYI

I am told they trailer your car to their testing facilities (apparently in Laverton somewhere?) at your cost.

They empty the fuel tank and refill with their test fuel. Run some tests (no exact idea on what they do and how long it takes?!).

Then write up a report and let you know whether you passed or just blew $3K for the fun of it

VicRoads accredited engineers are all very subjective AFAIK...there is no single set of rules - obviously most modifications for X and Y car are somewhat different / custom, but you will find most engineers have their quirks and are more pedantic on some areas than others.

I have a list of VicRoads accredited engineers if you like...also someone that I have heard is quite cooperative and proactive towards such projects.

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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject:

Could you possibly pm me the name and number of our friendly engineer? I would forever be grateful, i wont be driving this (much) until its engineered But it will be worth it, wow it rocks! Matt

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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject:

dcstraight wrote:

They empty the fuel tank and refill with their test fuel. Run some tests (no exact idea on what they do and how long it takes?!).

The engineer should be able to give you details of what the test involves. In NSW and some other states the IM240 test is deemed to correlate well with the full ADR drive cycle. The IM240 is a 4-minute (240 seconds, hence "240") subset of the ADR drive cycle, run on a warm engine, thus eliminating cat warmup time as a factor. It mainly tests closed-loop operation and doesn't have much full-throttle acceleration.

The only wrinkle in NSW is that the test is done in a sealed lab which collects ALL emissions from your car, so any oil vapour from leaky gaskets, petrol fumes from a poorly-sealed filler etc will all count as hydrocarbon emissions. One common issue on AU's is the diff breather hose which plumbs back to the intake or fuel system canister, often breaks near the axle. So if you have to pay $3000 for the test, make sure you don't have fuel, oil or vapour leaks, a good cat, oxy sensor, plugs, leads, filters etc.

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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:24 am Post subject:

-GAS-MAN- wrote:

Powerdyne SC with 9psi at the moment, considering 6.

I've got a 6 psi pulley (3.15) and belt to suit if your interested. Pulleys done about 1,000kms and belt is about 100km old. I'm stepping down the to 2.7 pulley now so it uses a shorter belt due to the smaller pulley, so both have to be replaced. If I remember correctly CAPA sell the pulley for around $160ish and the belt for around $180.00 ish.

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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:23 am Post subject:

sly wrote:

Terrific - thanks for that info - I knew some of it rang a bell !

Funny that you mention cat warmup time - I recall this was a fairly main concern - specifically for turbo setups having to ensure the cat was as close to the turbo exhaust housing.

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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:44 am Post subject:

twr7cx wrote:

-GAS-MAN- wrote:

Powerdyne SC with 9psi at the moment, considering 6.

The belts sell for 180? Gee! But yeah, i will pm you once i have the dosh for one

I rang Capa the other day "A technician will call you sometime later today"
That was Wednesday, might give them another buzz today

Sure i'd be interested in the 6psi pulley, but i do have a few questions.

The higher the rated pulley (say 9psi) means the earlier the supercharger spins up, hence eliminating negative boost?
1. So if i go from 9 to 12psi, boost will kick in earlier, because at the same engine rpm (say 2000rpm) the supercharger will be spinning 1/3rd faster, eliminating negative boost and increasing economy, power, reducing lag etc.

2. I really, really want the supercharger to produce boost much earlier, but how?

3. Is it possible to get the sc boosting up earlier (so in the higher rpm it would max out), but then maybe a clutch stops it maxing out earlier, keeping it at a predetermined speed (to save the sc from revving out)

A few things me and my friend Alex are wondering are:
4. To eliminate back pressure when in the lower rpm range (supercharger creating negatibe boost) why you cant put a one-way check valve to allow air to be sucked into the pipe between the sc and the throttlebody.

Under boost, the valve is closed, the bov or plumback does it's job, boost results.
Under negative boost, the bov does nothing, the one-way check valve opens and allows air to flow in (of course this will have an air filter)

Sounds so simple that i am sure it has been thought of.

5. A plumback on a sc? How are there any emissions coming from the sc?
It's driven off a pulley? -Thats Alex's argument, im just like "i agree, but if it needs to be done, it needs to be done, plus its quiter"

lol, life story *yawns* im gonna go flush my cooling system, change the oil and get a new windscreen fitted

Laters; and thanks so far
Matt

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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject:

-GAS-MAN- wrote:

twr7cx wrote:

-GAS-MAN- wrote:

Powerdyne SC with 9psi at the moment, considering 6.

The belts sell for 180? Gee! But yeah, i will pm you once i have the dosh for one

I rang Capa the other day "A technician will call you sometime later today"
That was Wednesday, might give them another buzz today

Yeah, blower stuff is not cheap. CAPA probably arn't the cheapest to buy from either but.

I've never had a trouble getting through to CAPA by phone, only e-mail.

1. The smaller the pulley the more boost the blower will make and the earlier it will start to boost up. So going from a 9 psi pulley to a 6 psi pulley will make you loose power and torque throughout the rev range. The smaller the pulley the higher the boost rating of it.

2. in theory what you could do is fit a small pulley to the blower so it boosts up low and early to give nice down low and torque. Then use a bleeder or some sort of waste gate contraption to vent off excess boost (i.e. the blower will still be producing it, but some of it is vented out of the system to avoid putting 15psi or whatever into an engine that can't handle it).
with the powerdyne this is not possible. Basically the powerdyne has a maximum internal RPM. With out Falcon I6 a 2.7 pulley is about the smallest you can go. You could run a 2.5 probably if you were careful with it and didn't rev the engine up as if you did the bearings in the PD would s**t themselves.
There's also a second problem in that the impeller of the PD has a maximum rpm efficency, anything after that speed and it's not doing a great job...
There's also the belt but I've heard these usually break when the bearings have gone or are on there way out.
Another option I've recently found is that in the USA there's a mob, 928 Motorsports who sell a replacement impeller, this impeller is rated to up to 60,000rpm. They claim that it is 20% more efficent that the standard impeller. So if you replace your current impeller with it, they reckon you'll make 20% more boost. They say that most of the blowers they rebuild with it, the owners go up a size in pulley and still make the same boost, which prolongs the life of the PD's bearings as they're not being spun so fast.
Aside from that I know of no other way to increase your low down, especialy with not increasing your top end.

By the way what size is the current pulley your running?

4. I reckon you'll find that although the engine is capable of taking more air, it's wouldn't actually have enough suck to it to work.

5. AFAIK - plumbacks were not made because the air actually has any emissions in it. Think about a turbo, they are no different to the blower, the air still doesn't have any emissions. They were made due to cars running MAFs. Basiccally the air would come in through the MAF -and so the ECU would know how much air had entered. The ECU would then provide the amount of fuel required for that air. But if the BOV later on in the system released that air the remaining air was going into the engine with more fuel going in than required for the correct ratio of that air, therefore the exhaust gas was very rich being bad emissions. So any car running a MAP doesn't have this problem as MAP measures only what has entered the manifold after already going past the throttle body and BOV.

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