Home |  Forums |  Search |  My Profile |  Chat  Photo Gallery |  Events Calendar |  Technical Documents  No messages |  New Posts |  Watched Topics |  Register   How do you double clutch? Goto page Previous  1, 2          Forum Index -> V8 Workshop Latest ratings Highest-ranked posts Highest-ranked topics Highest-ranked posters   Macca Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:36 Posts: 3196 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Singleton NSW, Australia View User Gallery (15) Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:29 pm    Post subject: philaddis wrote: Double clutching or rev matching is a sound principal to employ when making a down change from an already moderate engine speed. ie 3rd to second at 70 k's whilst driving hard. I have never ever heard of rev matching hurting synchro's at all? You are essentially just assisting them in thier job and as long as you are not placing any pressure on the shifter whilst adjusting revs, how are the synchro's being effected? My two cents! Well with a syncro gearbox unless you are getting the speeds matched you are only increasing the gear set speed which the syncro has to slow down so that it allows the dog teeth to mesh, how do you know you are getting it right as syncros are still doing their job no matter what you think, get it wrong and the syncro rings just increase wear until it is totally necessary to have to double clutch and then you will find out it is harder to match speeds. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission6.htm Quote: By rev matching you limit weight transferance due to more even engine braking and also limit the chance of a compression lock-up. Yeah I would agree with this, light weight flywheels/high compression and/or very light weight over rear wheels causes this problem a lot, people with thumper motorbikes etc (XR600 etc) would know this problem well. This type of rev matching however is not double clutching. Back to top Macca Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:36 Posts: 3196 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Singleton NSW, Australia View User Gallery (15) Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:40 pm    Post subject: blackjack_original wrote: People in fiats usually do it because the first geah isn't sincroed. actually i don't know about all fiats, but my 500 and 650 and 126's of my friends you had to do it. If you didn't double clutch you couldn't put it in first unless the car has completley stopped. Yeah a lot of old three speeds were the same, my Nan's old 200ci three on the tree XY was a 60km (40+mph) plus first gear (at full song) and for some reason it was non syncro first (XY was supposed to be syncro first) so when being young and very stupid, flogging it you had to double clutch to get it into first. (This car did not handle at all) I had to buy a few rear tyres for it over the years and not tell Nan, hmm plus the ones she replaced and thought it was funny how they weren't lasting on the front (I got sick of swapping rears to the front and other side). Back to top falconboy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Posts: 576 Joined: 25 Dec 2004 Location: Sydney NSW, Australia View User Gallery (1) Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:56 pm    Post subject: I suppose this is in relation to the discussion - but heard of a truck driver only being licenced to drive a truck with 'syncro automatic'. Whats this? It sounds like a manual without a clutch is it? Back to top blackjack_original Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:23 Posts: 3464 Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Location: Adelaide SA, Australia View User Gallery (8) Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Damage wrote: blackjack_original wrote: People in fiats usually do it because the first geah isn't sincroed. actually i don't know about all fiats, but my 500 and 650 and 126's of my friends you had to do it. If you didn't double clutch you couldn't put it in first unless the car has completley stopped. Yeah a lot of old three speeds were the same, my Nan's old 200ci three on the tree XY was a 60km (40+mph) plus first gear (at full song) and for some reason it was non syncro first (XY was supposed to be syncro first) so when being young and very stupid, flogging it you had to double clutch to get it into first. (This car did not handle at all) I had to buy a few rear tyres for it over the years and not tell Nan, hmm plus the ones she replaced and thought it was funny how they weren't lasting on the front (I got sick of swapping rears to the front and other side). Hehehe, nice lying to your nan. Hehe, allong the same lines, when i was younger, i mounted the kirb and i bent the steering arm of my oldmans car. To make maters worse i had stolen it in a way... so to try and get him to not notice i went to the pump and spent about 3 hrs deflating one tyre and overinflating the other one, trying to get it to go straight, which i did.. he still noticed but... Back to top hornet Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Posts: 916 Joined: 27 Nov 2004 Location: Berri SA, Australia View User Gallery (4) Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: I think double clutching isn't required nowadays in world of synchomesh gearboxes. I guess in large trucks you still need to. The only thing I do close to double cluthing is give my throttle a tap on downshifts (with the clutch fully in still) to help pick the revs up to match them better, and to sound cool Back to top Andrew J Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:22 Posts: 2432 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Manjimup WA, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:11 pm    Post subject: AXR88U wrote: You can rev match your change with out doing the double shuffle, its just meant for really heavy duty (truck) gearboxes. Yep, you can match the revs, but the gearbox itself doesnt change. When shifting in trucks, the clutch is let out to engage the front shaft and motor together. That way, when the motor speed is changed, the front shaft in the gearbox changes with it, and as the road speed doesnt change due to the gearbox being in neutral, the gears can be meshed. falconboy wrote: I suppose this is in relation to the discussion - but heard of a truck driver only being licenced to drive a truck with 'syncro automatic'. Whats this? It sounds like a manual without a clutch is it? Some of the newer European trucks like Scania and Volvo come out with synchro gearboxes. If you get your license in a synchroed box, you cant drive a non synchro. Back to top Macca Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:36 Posts: 3196 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Singleton NSW, Australia View User Gallery (15) Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:07 pm    Post subject: Andrew J wrote: Some of the newer European trucks like Scania and Volvo come out with synchro gearboxes. If you get your license in a synchroed box, you cant drive a non synchro. I didn't know that, that would be National too as all truck licences are National unlike car etc. Worse thing about those synchro boxes is most of them are slow engage the gears and a lot of them are air assisted so you can't hurry them along, to make things worse those same European s**t boxes (Volvo, Scania etc, the only good thing out of Sweden is blonde female backpackers) need quick gear changes because of small torque range, small capacity and large turbo makes for good fuel economy and high horse power on paper but it is totally a bastard to drive them. Back to top Andrew J Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:22 Posts: 2432 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Manjimup WA, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:16 pm    Post subject: Exactly. The american and Australian horsepower, while lower, seems far more workable than the european. Seeing as im only 17, Ive never driven a truck down the highway, so cant give an unbiased view, but from what ive seen, the 14 speed spicer seems like the way to go. Not too hard to figure out, and far less stick shifts. Which can only be a good thing Any other truck drivers preferences? Back to top Macca Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:36 Posts: 3196 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Singleton NSW, Australia View User Gallery (15) Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:41 pm    Post subject: Andrew J wrote: the 14 speed spicer seems like the way to go. Not too hard to figure out, and far less stick shifts. Which can only be a good thing Any other truck drivers preferences? Less the better I reckon, I sometimes forget what gear I am in, and when the shifter linkages are R/S it isn't fun guessing. I drove a s**t Volvo 6 speed (three speed with high and low range) dump truck recently with gear splitter, talk about not fun, with a 15t+ load of slush/mud/rock, having to use first low in low split, then high split, flick back to low split while changing to second low and to do this all the way to 1st high, then dump the load to turn around and do it all over again and again. I would be lucky to get to 45kph on most runs and I was flogging the ring out of it. Again I will say, the only things that should come out of Sweden is hot nude loving blonde backpackers. Back to top Interceptor Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:26 Posts: 7287 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Somewhere in QLD, Australia View User Gallery (12) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:38 am    Post subject: yea, the volvo box is an absolute bastard of a thing, i've had to do a bit of pad work with a twin steer FL10 with a 10 speed (i think..... never got above 30km on the pad.....) wierd part is, several guys who have been truckies all thier lives reckon the mack 15 speed is the biggest bastard second only to road ranger gearboxes, but apart from the occasional balky shifter, i find the macks the easiest to drive as for the national licences, you only get a federal licence if you want one, and apply/sit the test for one...... not really necessary cos you can drive trucks anywhere in australia on your state licence provided you have the appropriate qualifications Back to top Macca Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:36 Posts: 3196 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Singleton NSW, Australia View User Gallery (15) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:50 am    Post subject: Interceptor wrote: yea, the volvo box is an absolute bastard of a thing, i've had to do a bit of pad work with a twin steer FL10 with a 10 speed (i think..... never got above 30km on the pad.....) wierd part is, several guys who have been truckies all thier lives reckon the mack 15 speed is the biggest bastard second only to road ranger gearboxes, but apart from the occasional balky shifter, i find the macks the easiest to drive as for the national licences, you only get a federal licence if you want one, and apply/sit the test for one...... not really necessary cos you can drive trucks anywhere in australia on your state licence provided you have the appropriate qualifications Well NSW and QLD truck licence is standard National, NSW you can't get anything different, QLD when I swapped was the same, I didn't see any other heavy vehicle licences back then and I think you will find it is to stop truckies etc changing licences to get their points back etc, which you can do with car licence, a good mate flew to Victoria just to change his licence to Vic just because he only had one point in NSW, he just had to show a bank statement with a Victorian address, his parents live in Vic. I think you will find all the Heavy vehicle licences are National licences, they state what state they are from but all are National, that came in back in the early 90's, you didn't have a choice, your licence just became National, well that is what happened to me, I have had one since I was 19yr. Back to top madmax Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:45 Posts: 3740 Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Location: Skye VIC, Australia View User Gallery (10) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:11 am    Post subject: falconboy wrote: I suppose this is in relation to the discussion - but heard of a truck driver only being licenced to drive a truck with 'syncro automatic'. Whats this? It sounds like a manual without a clutch is it? That will be Syncro, Automatic. That what I have on my truck licence meaning Syncro Manual or Automatic. Back to top Daniel Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:23 Posts: 2969 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Melbourne VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:13 am    Post subject: Bah, just go semi-auto in the truck LOL! My dad rekons its the best fkn thing to go thru cities n towns; and if you need to change gears manually for some reason you can still do it - just push the little lever back or forth haha! Arcade game style! This is in an Iveco; again a euro.. Now hes back into kenworths. Ive driven a few trucks, but ive never had to change out of the first few gears, so i cant comment o this subject really, however i found one of the macks, a bastard to change gears, maybe im just s**t lol, prolly. Back to top Macca Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:36 Posts: 3196 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Singleton NSW, Australia View User Gallery (15) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:46 pm    Post subject: Daniel wrote: Bah, just go semi-auto in the truck LOL! My dad rekons its the best fkn thing to go thru cities n towns; and if you need to change gears manually for some reason you can still do it - just push the little lever back or forth haha! Arcade game style! This is in an Iveco; again a euro.. Now hes back into kenworths. Ive driven a few trucks, but ive never had to change out of the first few gears, so i cant comment o this subject really, however i found one of the macks, a bastard to change gears, maybe im just s**t lol, prolly. I shudder as I remember working on and driving old Leyland or similar real semi auto, very fragile gearboxes, some even had full air auto setup on them, but most of the controllers failed and were converted back to manual shift, scary stuff. As for Mack I don't know, worked on a couple all the time once but can't remember much about them except for a 550+hp B-double that I had much fun in the muddy big yard after the trailers were removed so they could sell it (coal truck so no quick release trailers are used, permanent bolted to turntable). Back to top Punnisher_42 Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:26 Posts: 743 Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Location: Tingalpa QLD, Australia View User Gallery (26) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:04 pm    Post subject: i frequently double clutch my EB mainly when i have slowed right down, and want to go to first to get speed faster instead of winding it up in 2nd. grab neutral, stab the throttle, grab first and plant it. Then comes the tricky bit - switching the ears off as the missus whines about me being a hoon... Back to top Interceptor Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:26 Posts: 7287 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Somewhere in QLD, Australia View User Gallery (12) Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:53 am    Post subject: Damage wrote: Interceptor wrote: yea, the volvo box is an absolute bastard of a thing, i've had to do a bit of pad work with a twin steer FL10 with a 10 speed (i think..... never got above 30km on the pad.....) wierd part is, several guys who have been truckies all thier lives reckon the mack 15 speed is the biggest bastard second only to road ranger gearboxes, but apart from the occasional balky shifter, i find the macks the easiest to drive as for the national licences, you only get a federal licence if you want one, and apply/sit the test for one...... not really necessary cos you can drive trucks anywhere in australia on your state licence provided you have the appropriate qualifications Well NSW and QLD truck licence is standard National, NSW you can't get anything different, QLD when I swapped was the same, I didn't see any other heavy vehicle licences back then and I think you will find it is to stop truckies etc changing licences to get their points back etc, which you can do with car licence, a good mate flew to Victoria just to change his licence to Vic just because he only had one point in NSW, he just had to show a bank statement with a Victorian address, his parents live in Vic. I think you will find all the Heavy vehicle licences are National licences, they state what state they are from but all are National, that came in back in the early 90's, you didn't have a choice, your licence just became National, well that is what happened to me, I have had one since I was 19yr. i know the licences are valid in all states, but i'm pretty sure you can still get a federal licence that is pretty much the same thing (same as you can get federal registration for trucks) Back to top EB XR8 Fordmods Oompa Loompa Age:25 Posts: 48 Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Location: Brisbane QLD, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:30 pm    Post subject: hornet wrote: I think double clutching isn't required nowadays in world of synchomesh gearboxes. I guess in large trucks you still need to. The only thing I do close to double cluthing is give my throttle a tap on downshifts (with the clutch fully in still) to help pick the revs up to match them better, and to sound cool Damn Straight!! Plus you can keep your toes on your right foot on the brake and tap the accelerator with your heel while holding the clutch in with ol' lefty. Works well as theres no need to release the brakes plus you can imagine u are driving a V8 supercar (albeit with about 350 less horsepower). Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First             Forum Index -> V8 Workshop Goto page Previous  1, 2 Page 2 of 2   (c)2002-2008 Matti Jones and Brad Evans [44 queries :: 1.13863 seconds ]