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JoeXR6
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
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 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: Intercooling Questions |
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Hi Fellas,
I'm weighing up whether or not to front mount intercool my 10psi centri SC AU (6 cylinder). I've changed some things recently.....headwork, heavy duty internal SC belt, impeller uprgrade, and now the engine pings lightly when loaded uphill on boost in 3rd, for example.
I'm thinking that maybe the stiffer internal belt, plus more aggressive impeller might be putting some more heat into the unit/air. I'm currently running proper water injection with good pump, atomising nozzle etc. Compression is down at 9:1, AFR's are good (on rich side), tune is good. I'm thinking that a front mount might be the answer, but I'm interested to know what to expect re: drivability, power/torque, economy, etc.
I guess these questions are mostly addressed to you guys who have run a non-intercooled setup, then fitted a FMIC later:
1. What power/torque gains did you achieve just by fitting the intercooler + tune?
2. How did it affect drivability....eg. did the longer pipework and air restriction cause a loss of crispness/responsiveness down low in rev range?
3. How was economy affected? Was is worse due to less low down response, or better due to colder air efficiency?
Thanks for your tips,
Joe |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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biggest tip I'll give you is that it'll drop yourboost pressure way down - e.g. I went from 9psi using a direct pipe to 4 psi with a front mount intercooler. also the size of the piping, length and intercooler will effect this - I'm using 3" piping, and tried both a 600 x 300 x 75mm and 300 x 300 x 75mm intercoolers, there's about 1psi difference in boost drop between the two. this is with a standard CAPA supplied Powerdyne.
I picked up my 2.5" pulley the other day, going to try it now, hopefully that'll take me back up to 9psi.
Last edited by twr7cx on Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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JoeXR6
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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twr7cx, let us know how you go with the new pulley.
So you dropped boost with the FMIC....what did it do to power/accleration/driveability, etc? |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| JoeXR6 wrote: | | what did it do to power/accleration/driveability, etc? |
Not sure, as I hadn't driven on the 9psi set up for more than just around the block. I was always planning on going intercooled. |
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opto
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Have you considered water to air intercooling ? |
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justa6
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| my cooler didn't make it drop one bit, i think having cooler air, making more power will far outway any loss |
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JoeXR6
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Opto, yes I've considered water air (looked at frozenboost package). I think W/A will achieve the best temp drops, with the best throttle response also (minimal pipework), but I'm leaning toward air/air due to lighter weight (not full of water), and simplicity (no electrics, pump, extra radiator to fit, etc). I'm keeping the weight issue in mind as I don't want to upset the handling balance too much, with extra weight over the front end. Its already fairly hefty with SC and water injection. I think it will end up cheaper too?
I've looked at your W/A setup before, looks really good. |
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falcon_6
Fordmods Newbie
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Intercooling Questions |
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| JoeXR6 wrote: | Hi Fellas,
I'm weighing up whether or not to front mount intercool my 10psi centri SC AU (6 cylinder). I've changed some things recently.....headwork, heavy duty internal SC belt, impeller uprgrade, and now the engine pings lightly when loaded uphill on boost in 3rd, for example.
I'm thinking that maybe the stiffer internal belt, plus more aggressive impeller might be putting some more heat into the unit/air. I'm currently running proper water injection with good pump, atomising nozzle etc. Compression is down at 9:1, AFR's are good (on rich side), tune is good. I'm thinking that a front mount might be the answer, but I'm interested to know what to expect re: drivability, power/torque, economy, etc.
I guess these questions are mostly addressed to you guys who have run a non-intercooled setup, then fitted a FMIC later:
1. What power/torque gains did you achieve just by fitting the intercooler + tune?
2. How did it affect drivability....eg. did the longer pipework and air restriction cause a loss of crispness/responsiveness down low in rev range?
3. How was economy affected? Was is worse due to less low down response, or better due to colder air efficiency?
Thanks for your tips,
Joe |
Pinging can be caused by being too rich as well. |
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badcooky
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Posts: 319
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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If it's pinging now mid winter i'd be looking at intercooling options.
Maybe wrap your headers,even if they're ceramic coated,a phenolic spacer,low temp thermostat, some venting to channel air in and out.
Little stuff that costs less than a C note each mod but the effects will assist an intercooler do it's work. |
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EBXR8380
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Retard the timing and fit colder plugs.. |
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JoeXR6
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
Age:27
Posts: 117
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Location: Brisbane QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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EBXR, I've got one stage colder plugs, gapped right. I don't want to retard timing anymore...keen to keep as much torque and response as possible. Two dyno operators cannot detect detonation at all, and are happy with the tune. In 90% of full boost situations the engine runs smooth and happy...its close, but I think I need something to take the edge off it in the aforementioned loaded vehicle/hill/high engine load/boost scenario.
Some of you guys who have fitted turbos would have some non-intercooled to intercooled experience I'd imagine? |
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JoeXR6
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
Age:27
Posts: 117
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Location: Brisbane QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| twr7cx wrote: | | tried both a 600 x 300 x 75mm and 300 x 300 x 75mm intercoolers, there's about 1psi difference in boost drop between the two. |
twr7cx, what type of FMIC core did you use....bar and plate, or tube and fin? |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
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Location: Hobart TAS, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| JoeXR6 wrote: | | twr7cx wrote: | | tried both a 600 x 300 x 75mm and 300 x 300 x 75mm intercoolers, there's about 1psi difference in boost drop between the two. |
twr7cx, what type of FMIC core did you use....bar and plate, or tube and fin? |
It's a PWR Aero 2, can't remember which it is, but it's the better of the two. Not an el cheepo ebay speacial. |
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opto
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:45
Posts: 725
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Location: Adelaide SA, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| JoeXR6 wrote: | Opto, yes I've considered water air (looked at frozenboost package). I think W/A will achieve the best temp drops, with the best throttle response also (minimal pipework), but I'm leaning toward air/air due to lighter weight (not full of water), and simplicity (no electrics, pump, extra radiator to fit, etc). I'm keeping the weight issue in mind as I don't want to upset the handling balance too much, with extra weight over the front end. Its already fairly hefty with SC and water injection. I think it will end up cheaper too?
I've looked at your W/A setup before, looks really good. |
If you are interested here's the link
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Water-to-Air-Turbo-Intercooler-Universal-600hp-DIY-kit_W0QQitemZ130244357919QQihZ003QQcategoryZ130634QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
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Raptorsc
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Joe
What power are you seeing on these dyno's? And what boost pressure? And what intake temps?
Can give you more definite answers with a bit more info to work with |
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JoeXR6
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
Age:27
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Raptorsc wrote: | | What power are you seeing on these dyno's? And what boost pressure? And what intake temps? |
Tim, previously I've seen 186rwkw. Since then I fitted the impeller and rebuild kit I bought from you, shortened some intake pipe, and had some headwork done (chambers cc'd to get compression down to 9:1).
With this work done, the car had been run up on dyno to check afr's, etc, and then I've driven it. Hasn't had tune adjusted yet. All appears well on dyno. The SC is running a 9psi pulley, but previously the dyno operator said that boost was slightly higher....so I'd say it runs around 10psi.
Re: intake temps....don't know. I haven't measured temps.
How do you guys measure intake temps...one of those little probes with a digital readout, fitted in to the plenum?
Thanks for the advice. |
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JoeXR6
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Has anyone actually gone from non-intercooled to intercooled, and can comment on how this affects driving characteristics? Still keen to get some more definitive info!
Tim, do you use tube/fin or bar/plate on the intercooled raptors?
I'm thinking small tube and fin front mount could be the go... |
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