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blacksabbath189
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 Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: My EB XR8 twin turbo project. |
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well the plan is to twin turbo a eb xr8. but i need alot of advice, and im sure many members can help me out. i've been researching on here, and reading through many post on turbomustangs. will only be running 7 psi. i've decided to go with log style manifolds and high mount design just behind the headlights. then possibly run the dump pipes under the manifolds. will be pretty tight for space. or possibly even over the rockercovers then downwards...
what turbo's would be best to use?
i already have EMS 8860 and 55lb siemens injectors which should take care of the fuel system, bar the fuel pump.
pics, advice any other tips would be greatly appreciated. was thinking of going with internal wastegates, both to save space, and should be fine with low boost.
cheers guys, and let the posts roll...  |
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BlownNc
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| from what i understand...mustang manifolds wont fit in aussie engine bays...make your manifolds so the exhausts run beside the rocker cover, i have a single turbo setup on my v8 and the exhaust is snug between the rocker cover and strut tower |
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schnoods
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: |
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That kit looks like a low mount.
The biggest problem with a twin turbo set up on a falcon 5.0l is clearance on the driver side steering shaft. Its a pretty tight fit , especially with the manifold going to the turbo, then the exhaust going back again trying to clear the shock tower and steering shaft.
If it is going to be only 7psi maybe a single might be easier to get away with. Run a cross over pipe from the driver side to the passenger, you can mount the turbo high and run the exhaust over the manifold.
But the twins look good.  |
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blacksabbath189
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: |
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yeah its a tough choice.
if i go TT, maybe even low mount the drivers side turbo, and high mount the passenger side turbo? then there might be more clearance to pass the
steering. but im concerned the turbo will end up being lower than the sump, big problems for oil lines.
but with single turbo's, most of the ones i've seen are mounted on the drivers side.
do you have any idea on what turbo's would be good to use for TT, was just going to use a garrett TO4Z if i go single.
cheers for the reply's. |
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RAPTOR_XR8
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Mate it will be double everything with that set up and at 7 psi you def wont need two.
The money will be best spent on a very good single turbocharger and engine managment system, a single can produce enough power to split the std block so if you go twins you may aswell get a better block.
Brad |
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blacksabbath189
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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i'll be running 7 psi just to get her running properly, i know this is most likely going to become a bottomless pit when it comes to money. BUT, i wana give the TT a go. i'll be doing it on the cheap, so im not too fussed how it turns out, if i split the block, just an excuse to get a DART replacement  |
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3.9from hell
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| RAPTOR_XR8 wrote: | Mate it will be double everything with that set up and at 7 psi you def wont need two.
The money will be best spent on a very good single turbocharger and engine managment system, a single can produce enough power to split the std block so if you go twins you may aswell get a better block.
Brad |
wow, how bout u do a bit of research mate, first up most big hp turbo settups are single settups, obviosly this guy is not after mega hp, secondly a TT setup will be much more driver friendly, hav much less lag, much lower boost threshold, TT is definatly the way id go, especialy if u only want 7psi
ok yes there will be much custom fabrication but no more than a single setup,
if u do end up going low mounts there are ways around the oil drain issue
namely a recovery tank and scavenger pump setup
been done a few times on TT bosses now
think herrod motor sport hav sum experience in the area
id giv them a call and hav a chat
best of luck in any case mate, should be an awsome beast
and dont forget that a low mount TT setup can be completly invisible from the engine bay
could come in handy |
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BlownNc
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| honestly, after building my own single turbo manifolds, depending on what you plan on moving in your engine bay...i reckon from a manifold/dump pipe perspective twins would be easier if you were to make your own... |
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schnoods
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| 3.9from hell wrote: | | RAPTOR_XR8 wrote: | Mate it will be double everything with that set up and at 7 psi you def wont need two.
The money will be best spent on a very good single turbocharger and engine managment system, a single can produce enough power to split the std block so if you go twins you may aswell get a better block.
Brad |
wow, how bout u do a bit of research mate, first up most big hp turbo settups are single settups, obviosly this guy is not after mega hp, secondly a TT setup will be much more driver friendly, hav much less lag, much lower boost threshold, TT is definatly the way id go, especialy if u only want 7psi
ok yes there will be much custom fabrication but no more than a single setup,
if u do end up going low mounts there are ways around the oil drain issue
namely a recovery tank and scavenger pump setup
been done a few times on TT bosses now
think herrod motor sport hav sum experience in the area
id giv them a call and hav a chat
best of luck in any case mate, should be an awsome beast
and dont forget that a low mount TT setup can be completly invisible from the engine bay
could come in handy |
just as in the first post, it is going to be a budget build.
No doubt the twins will be more efficient and be less laggy (if doctored right size for application).
Cost vs efficiency is what it is all about though, peak hp means not too much if isnt drivable. Not starting a twin vs single debate, but from a budget point of view it is definately easier with the single, with less plumping of oil lines, one set of inlet piping, one exhaust to worry about.
Especially with the limited space in the bay, I am doing a blower and the plumbing is a pain in the a** at the moment. No doubt twins can be down with ease low mounted, the LS1 Turbo guys have done this with great results. |
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blacksabbath189
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: |
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...again cheers for the reply's, im slowly starting to sort out what im going to do.
the twin turbo plan is staying/opposed to single. as this is all about budget, maybe high mounted turbo's would be the way to go? so no need for recovery tank and pump, which in itself be a small head ache.
now with the turbo's, would it be beneficial to have 2 slightly different sized? build a "sequential" set up. and it would be great if someone could suggest afew...
btw:
- just purchsed 2 more siemens injectors.
- and 2 t3 flanges.
a good mate of mine is a boilermaker so hopefully, he will be able to do alot of the fabrication work for a carton or two.
cheers guys |
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RAPTOR_XR8
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Both turbos should be the same size, easier than seq or any other way.
Mate let me tell you that as far as the twins versus single debate goes IT IS A V8 not a 4L crapper, turbo lag on an 8 you would have to be joking
right. If the charger was sized correctly there is instant torque off idle.
In all honesty if you are the least bit serious go and talk to a performance shop of some sort instead of on the internet they wil not bull crap you.
Also EBXR8380 is your man to talk to regarding twins or any other arrangement setup he will not crap on and will give very accurate information.
I was considering a twins setup like you and i decided to go a Raptor centri in the end because of prices and information.
I know my facts and have done my research A single turbo on A V8 will not be laggy at all.
It doesnt have to make huge peak power to be drivable and have very good low to mid range power, so unless you have made a turbo setup for E series V8 you should retract your statement.
Brad |
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blacksabbath189
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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yeah cheers mate, the debate continues between single/twin, but im going to stick with my decision. no matter how it turns out.
and yeah i've been hoping EBXR8380 would post up here, might send him a PM.
living in a small country town, performance workshops dont exist, so it makes it rather difficult. i may have a chat to BPT motorsport, but with most of there work being centred around superchargers, not sure how far there experience with turbo'd 8's stretches.
and another thing is, intercooling, would it be worth it, with the amount of work involved in piping etc. i was thinking of having 2 individual coolers, mounted side by side, with inlet/outlets on same side.  |
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RAPTOR_XR8
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah mate i understand and i hope it all works really well for you.
You must run an intercooler with turbos there is just too much heat transfered from the turbine shaft to compressor you would be crazy not to.
You could try running comressor outlet pipes together before it joins the intercooler probably the best way. Lots of piping to go in the engine bay to join the whole lot up.
This is why its easier to run a single turbo for this reason but that hasnt stopped anyone, plus the bragging rights about twins ha yeah.
Brad |
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ltd351T
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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From the posts it sounds like you need to keep reading a bit more before you start this build.
Firstly, you haven't mentioned a budget, nor a power goal.
Twins Vs single, you gotta think if you want to upgrade the turbo later, twins cost twice as much, everyone upgrades at some stage, and as the turbo is the single most expensive part in many turbo kits, having only one is of benefit, that reason alone IMO single is better for most people.
The S400 with 1.1 would be a possible candidate, although maybe a touch too big(output and size), but cheap none the less. Will be less than 1000$ AU delivered and is comparable to GT42-02, but S400 has bigger turbine wheel.
Single you'll have less lines and stuff to worry about, however single will need to be externally gated, twins could use internal gates.
The yanks, many kits come with MPT70's, they are cheap and readily available, yank kits use .69, but .96 is better suited, say with 44-50mm gate.
Intercooler is a no brainer, just an ebay 600x300x76 etc will be the cheapest HP per dollar anywhere. |
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blacksabbath189
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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yes indeed i need more info before i start anything major.
my budget is 6k + tuning. as i already have injectors and engine management, im hoping it should cover most of it.
as for a power figure i was looking at 300rwhp+ for now.
and cheers mate, i will check out those turbo's you suggested. |
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blacksabbath189
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
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a mate that works at muffler rebel has offered to knock up an exhaust for me. either a twin 2.5inch system or twin 3 inch with new cats and a lukey muffler on each pipe for 600 - 700. which would be best?
i've been flicking through fordforums and there seems to be afew e series 8's running 2 vg30DET turbo's (single turbo engine). these seem pretty cheap. what is the opinion with these? one guy suggested putting a high flow kit through them.
cheers. |
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schnoods
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| blacksabbath189 wrote: | a mate that works at muffler rebel has offered to knock up an exhaust for me. either a twin 2.5inch system or twin 3 inch with new cats and a lukey muffler on each pipe for 600 - 700. which would be best?
i've been flicking through fordforums and there seems to be afew e series 8's running 2 vg30DET turbo's (single turbo engine). these seem pretty cheap. what is the opinion with these? one guy suggested putting a high flow kit through them.
cheers. |
Exhaust depends on what configuration you are running again. for a single turbo a 3" or even 3 1/2" would be fine, for a twin turbo, twin 2 1/2" is ideal.
Im not sure about using 2nd hand turbo's. By the tme they are rebuilt and high flowed (steel wheels) it would make sense to just buy new? |
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blacksabbath189
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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ye TT set up, so i'll go with the twin 2.5 system.
i can get second hand turbo's off a vg30det for around 500 each. so to just get it up and running shouldnt be too expensive. depending on how long they last |
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EBXR8380
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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I bought two Precision SC63/s T3/4 hybrids, watercooled and ball bearing...Scroll to bottom..
http://www.pagparts.com/perfpts1.asp?pprd=gtturbo&cat=sportt3t4
These would be far too much power wise for std block!!!
A set of SC61's with smaller trim would fine...
A S400sx would do the trick with these specs..
*S400SX Specs*
Compressor Wheel Inducer - 75mm
Compressor Wheel Exducer- 100mm
Turbine Wheel Inducer - 83mm
Turbine Wheel Exducer - 74mm
Turbine Wheel Trim - 79
Turbine Outlet - V-Band
Turbine Inlet - T4 or T6
Turbine A/R - 1.10
Horsepower Rating - 500-1000
This would cost around $1500 or so depending on postage?? This would be used as single turbo..
Another cheap-sh option is a Masterpower T70..
http://www.frantik.co.nz/Products/T-70/masterpower.htm
The singles would require a seperate external wastegate which would cost $600 to $800 for a decent sized gate.. The lower your boost levels the bigger the gate required...But the way its fabricated is 70% the way it works better...
I like either Teal or Turbosmart when it comes to [external] w/gates...
Both single and twins have there plumbing issues...
You need a crossover pipe to jpin the two turbo's...
Same on exhaust when going single...
The Nissan turbo's where first fitted on my std 5.0 block.. They have ceramic turbine wheels which break off and cost over $2k to fix for the two with steel wheels... With twins if one breaks then the other realy should be fixed too as they will surge, they need to flow the same...
The air comp was removed and fitted to idler pulley where the U.S have there air pump...
Here is comparison between VG30's and SC61's...
The SC61's are bigger...
There is obviously a much different size here..About 200 odd h.p difference..
Engine out to fix ignition pick up on front pulley...
Crossover pipe...
Yes looks strange out of engine bay...
Air con compressor fitted...
Notice the stainless steel flexable oil return lines...
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