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Spork
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: Aftermarket ECU Review :See 1st page!: |
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Hi all,
I have been looking at some aftermarket ECU's. I'm not going to buy one anytime soon but I have been looking at the software/features for each and thought I would post a summary here.
**** LAST UPDATED: 07/11/2005 *******
*****Prices are approximate and may change without notice *********
1) EMS Stinger V4. approx cost $1250, extra loom/cables = included, Needs Bosch wideband sensor ~100.
Pro's: Cheap, Adjustable tables. Core software is as functional as any other ecu (inc Motec) + has 4cy sequential, WIDEBAND sensor compatable with no extra hardware required! Excellent Autotune facility will save $$$ tuning. Closed loop control and real time tuning. Limited boost control capbility, datalogging (with laptop), Small and lightweight. Simple NOS control. Basemap for falcons! (but is crude, will start car only)
Con's: Very limited input's, 4 outputs only, Few special features. Boost control and antilag is crude. Plug is not waterproof
2) EMS 8860. Approx cost $1650, extra loom/cables = about $100 - $300
Pro's: Real time tuning, Autotune feature with wide band lambda controler built in, 8 digital outputs, 4with PWM and steppermotor. Large number of inputs, good for motorsport. More advanced boost control. Internal Datalogging. Very large size of fuel and ignition table with more compensations ( battery comp, injector trims), tables are adjustable. Simple NOS control.
Basemap for falcons! (but is crude, will start car only)
Con's: Traction control still! not avaialble yet, Still few special features and crude input/output control (no 3D tables).
3) Haltech E6. Approx cost $1600, Extra loom/cables = about $100-$300
Pro's: Real time tuning. Large tuning tables. Many compensations. True Closed loop lambda control. Many special features. Good support and comprehensive user manual. Crude boost control but better antilag control. Onboard datalogging. Simple NOS control
Con's: Fixed RPM map points. Limited number of input's/outputs. Limited support for non-haltech sensors.
4) Haltech E11v2. Approx cost $2400, Extra loom/cables = about $100-$300
Pro's: As per E6. Including more 3D tables, Customiseable RPM/load points including auxillary tables, good (3D) boost control. Many inputs/outputs (8 analogue inputs, 6 digial inputs, 6 digial out) Even more compensations! More special features. Excellent NOS control. Automatic transmission control.
Con's: Windows software is buggy, No traction control as per Motec. Wideband is only available with extra module, no autotune at this price = bad.
5) MoTeC M4 Clubman. Approx cost $2000, Extra loom/cables = about $300-$800
Pro's: Customiseable RPM load points. MANY set-up parameters, able to read multiple sensors for load, true closed loop lambda. Massive number of accessories and excellent support. Many special functions for aux input/output including 3D tables. Excelent boost control Small, Light. Upgradeable
Con's: Expensicve for features. Limited fuel/ignition compensations. No datalogging. Limited inputs/outputs. No wide band lamda. Only DOS software. No antilag or NOS. Starting to get outdated by cheaper ECU's and M400-800 range.
6) MoTeC M4 Pro (upgrade from clubman) Approx cost $2500, Extra loom/cables = about $300-$800
Pro's: As for clubman with, Traction/launch control, Wide band lambda auto tune function, gearchange ignition cut. Excellent boost and antilag control. Larger fuel tables. Many compensations. Telemetry. In general all functions have many more setup parameters than other brands of ECU.
Con's: Accessories are expensive. DOS software. Still very limited inputs/outputs (2 digital in, 4 digital out, 2 analogue in)
7) MoTeC M400 - M600 - M800 Approx cost $2800 - $3800 Extra loom/cables = about $300-$800
Pro's: Just about everything! As per M4 PRO but need to spend $$$ to get upgrades. The ONLY ecu that will control electronic throttle, Dual VCT making it the only ecu for BA falcons. Also CAN bus and more accessories than you can poke a stick at. Excellent windows software. Can integrate with Motec Dash logger ($3000), trans controller and some factory systems.
Con's: Very expensive but no competitors at this level. $2800 still does not get you datalogging as standard! M400 is only really suitable for 4 cylinder engines.
8) Microtech LTX-12s. Approx Cost $1250, Additional Cables/ ignitors = $225 for falcon
Pro's: Cheap! Comes with base map for your car installed!, Small, Australian design/support, Has optional hand controller so not laptop needed ($150). Good accessories. Datalogging (laptop). Real time tuning.
Con's: Poor value compared with Stinger. Cannot edit maps while not connected to ECU (laptop or hand controller) only 256 mapping points. Only one aux digital out/in. Special features non existant. No boost control (as far as I can tell). Very Limited compensations (only air temp, coolent temp). No ISC control, or NOS control.
9)MS-II. Cost approx $250-$300, extra looms/cables - DIY
Pros: Very cheap, user definable RPM/MAP points, Alpha-N (throttle) or MAP tuning (uses volumetric efficency tuning method), wideband support, can be configured to use any temp sensor, laptop only datalogging, off-line auto-tuning, realtime tuning, 3 loadbands for wideband closed loop (requires seperate wideband controller), standard set of compensation tools (battery voltage comp, barometric comp, either at start-up or continuous, air temp, coolant temp). Dual table for fuel and spark. Can be user reprogramed and upgraded!
Cons: DIY construction takes time and is not suited to a lot of people, no sequential (2 stage banked), Most tuners will not know how to program. No warranty or official help (reliability??). No (real) traction control. No closed loop (narrowband). No special features (except fuel only revlimit) Very limited expansion outputs/ inputs availaible (ie not enough for PWM idle control and PWM boost control and fuel pump and thermofans). May not be compatable with all ignition systems.
10)Wolf 3D Version 4. Approx cost $1095 Extra for Cables ~$100 - $400
Pros: Fine resolution of 125RPM but RPM/load points are fixed. Many compensations however implementation is basic. Real time tuning. Has data logging. Hand controller can be used to program and be permenantly set-up in car. Support for many sensors, built in 21psi map sensor. Closed loop O2, Basic Boost control. Many accessories. Support for wide band O2 (seperate controller).
Cons: Inputs and outputs are limited (but there is a 'plus' version with more) however there are few special functions ie. no Aux table with PWM control, or antilag, Nos. Can only control 4 injectors sequentially (actually this is the case for all ECU's untill the EMS8860). Laptop kit cost extra (~$50). Hand controller is confusing and basic.
11) Autronic SMC2, SMC4: Approx cost $2400??
Pros: As per motec. Excellent tuning functions. Another ECU to control electronic throttle and VCT. Links in with autronic 4 gas analyser to determine VE table, allows accurate user tuning of A/F ratio without dyno (as long as engine config remains the same) - excellent for 'on track' tuning. Closed loop boost control! Good selection of inputs and outputs as per motec, generally cheaper if you include motec upgrade costs. A professional racing ecu.
Cons: Not as widely used as motec, less accessories. expense? Software not as polished.
Well that's it. If you have any corrections or want to add info about an ECU you have had experience with post below. Hopefully this could become a database on ECU's
Last edited by Spork on Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:49 am, edited 4 times in total |
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MO
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Why does no one like microtech? There are about $1000 and easy to tune.
YOu dont need anything to special. MOTEC are great but money is better spent elsewhere. A friend with a racecar uses microtech and says he would like to get motec but for the .001 of a second he would gain on the track his $3000 is better spent elsewhere.
Has anyone used a Microtech on a falcon before? |
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Spork
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Ok I hadn't seen microtech before. here is the review
Microtech LTX-12s. Approx Cost $1250, Additional Cables/ ignitors = $225 for falcon
Pro's: Cheap! Comes with base map for your car installed!, Small, Australian design/support, Has optional hand controller so not laptop needed ($150). Good accessories. Datalogging (laptop). Real time tuning.
Con's: Cannot edit maps while not connected to ECU (laptop or hand controller) only 256 mapping points - similar to Stinger. Only one aux digital out/in. Special features non existant. No boost control (as far as I can tell). Very Limited compensations (only air temp, coolent temp). No ISC control, or NOS control.
Unsure of other features since website has limited info. |
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Waggin
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Nice Review. Puts it all into perspective nicely.
As stated, you need atleast a M400 isn't suitable for the falcons.. M600 upwards is the go.
While the MoTeC Mx00's are feature packed, sadly alot of the good features cost more ontop of the already big pricetag. Want wide-band lambda? Add $800 plus the cost of the sensor 
I'd say if you can't afford the Mx00's, the EMS 8860 has to be the next best option |
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Spork
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Waggin wrote: |
I'd say if you can't afford the Mx00's, the EMS 8860 has to be the next best option |
I'd say also have a GOOD look at the Haltech E6, has alot of options and even more fuel and ignition trims than the Motec M4 Pro. The only downside is you have to run their MAP sensor. The EMS has more outputs but the haltech has more options and special features.
If they would ever get around to adding closed loop lambda and traction control to the EMS it would be excellent but for now I think the haltech's are the best value for money.
Anyone who has tuned their car with any of these systems, post here with how easy/hard it was to use. What you think etc. |
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Waggin
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Well, anyone running a MoTeC on a speed density EEC can't use their MAP sensor anyway
My neighbour works at Haltech, should have a word to him  |
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voxace
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Some nice info there, should be a sticky. |
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unclewoja
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:15 am Post subject: |
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I'd like to post a bit about Megasquirt-II if I may:
MS-II. Cost approx $250-$300, extra looms/cables - DIY
Pros: Very cheap, 12x12 3D fuel and spark tables, (capability to go up to 24x24) user definable RPM/MAP points, Alpha-N (throttle) or MAP tuning, 24Mhz processor, wideband support, can be configured to use any temp sensor, datalogging, off-line auto-tuning, realtime tuning, 3 loadbands for wideband closed loop, stepper motor control, enormous support, capable for tuning up to 250kPa (21 Psi boost), full set of compensation tools (battery voltage comp, barometric comp, either at start-up or continuous, air temp, coolant temp) Dual table for fuel and spark (i.e. you can run two sets of injectors used at different stages, say 1 set used below 3000RPM and one set used above 3000RPM) Very stable windows, unix and linux tuning software, rev limiter, traction control.
Cons: DIY construction takes time and is not suited to a lot of people, banked injection, traction control is crude at this stage and analyses engine RPM to determine wheel spin. |
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Spork
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Yeah I think the MSII is a good buy (not MSI since you can buy a fuel only computer for about $400 these days). Especially on a budget. I didn't include it in the original post becasue I was comparing prebuilt packages. The downsides are also that it has very limited aux inputs/outputs. Ie no boost control or PWM control built in and limited spare ports to implement it. However since the source code is available I suppose you can write your own functions to suit your application.
Adding the Wolf 3D:
Wolf 3D Version 4. Approx cost $1095 Extra for Cables ~$100 - $400
Pros: Fine resolution of 125RPM but RPM/load points are fixed. Many compensations however implementation is basic. Real time tuning. Has data logging. Hand controller can be used to program and be permenantly set-up in car. Support for many sensors, built in 21psi map sensor. Closed loop O2, Basic Boost control. Many accessories. Support for wide band O2. Looks very good against a stinger or unichip
Cons: Inputs and outputs are limited (but there is a 'plus' version with more) however there are few special functions ie. no Aux table with PWM control, or antilag, Nos. Can only control 4 injectors sequentially (actually this is the case for all ECU's untill the EMS8860). Laptop kit and software may cost extra (~$180).
Overall: A very good unit at a bargin price. Not as fully featured as upspec ECU's but you have to spend another $600 - $1000 to beat it. Australian support looks great.
UPDATE: After further investigation, the wolf hand controller interface is quite confusing and will take a while to lean. Important if you are taking it to a tuner who may not have used it before. In comparison the other ECU's have very similar software. The PC software is an extra cost item also and is not available on the web.
Last edited by Spork on Mon May 02, 2005 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Spider_GT
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Awesome info this will help in the next year or so
Cheers
Spider |
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Spork
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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I have also looked at Autronic. I cant post a full review because its hard to get information. However they appear to have very similar functions to Motec. Although they program very uniquely. Its all designed to get somene setup and tuning as fast a possible. Basically take your car to an engine dyno and the Autronic works out your engines VE (similar to MS) automatically using the Autronic gas analyser (that the dyno operator will have). According to the website this will take between 20min and an hour of dyno time. Then you can adjust the desired air fuel ratio any time so long as the engine stays in the same mechanical configuration.
If you do a mod you just pop back on the dyno for 1/2 hour and the ecu will relean the VE table and maintain the desired air fuel ratio. Very cool and easy! Alternatively you can program in a similar way to other ECU's
Other functions are very intuative and powerfull although it doesn't have as many compensation factors as say the haltec. Also inputs and outputs are limited in some versions (like only 4 user inputs/outputs). However it is the only ecu other than MoTeC to offer real traction/launch control and propper closed loop boost control. They also support our PWM Idle speed controllers (in propper closed loop) and closed loop O2 control. There is also alot of support and excellent wiring diagrams showing how to install. Its also Australian based.
Overall it looks very good. But I cant find any decent pricing information. It seams to range from $1600 to $2600 according to other forums so who knows? Anyone want to post with more info? |
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tjb45
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Spork wrote: | | The PC software is an extra cost item also and is not available on the web. |
Software is available on their website http://www.wolfems.com.au/products/enginemanagement/wolf3d/version4and4plus/pcsoftware
They charge $50 for the data cable, and $50 for the software if you buy it from them.
Given that you can download it for free, seems a bit silly to charge $50 to get a copy from them.
Also the data cable is very simple to make, it is just a standard serial cable with a different connector on one end. If anyone want to save themselves $50 send me a message and I’ll give you the details to make your own cable..
Cheers |
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slycruza
Fordmods - Smokin em up
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| i have a autronic sm2 computer which i paid 2600 for the computer and 150 for the new loom and now i am waiting for someone to put it in for me... another grand.... so it works out pretty exspensive!!! but they guy that is goin to tune it tunes race cars as well with the autronic and motec so he know what his doin |
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Spork
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| slycruza wrote: | | i have a autronic sm2 computer which i paid 2600 for the computer and 150 for the new loom and now i am waiting for someone to put it in for me... another grand.... so it works out pretty exspensive!!! but they guy that is goin to tune it tunes race cars as well with the autronic and motec so he know what his doin |
Autronic is serious stuff. You haven't tried installing some/all of it yourself? $1000 for install sounds like alot how many hours is it going to take them?
Let me know how it goes with the autotune thing! Also if you hook up traction control (sounds like you'll need it with that setup!) it would be interesting to hear how that goes too!
Good point with the tuning. A well tuned stinger will still outperform a poorly tuned motec so make sure you factor in the $$$ for tuning. What are the going rates? |
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tickford_6
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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the EMS Stinger is due for a new software realise soon. the new software is based on the 8860 software and will provide moveable RPM and LOAD points
as well as a few other things.
the 8860 software is almost done. 8 ignition drivers are now functional,
they are now working on commodore stepper motor controll (i know useless for us)
although it is not available |
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Snailracing
Fordmods Newbie
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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NZ product? Link!
Link Plus specs -
LinkPlus Engine Management
LinkPlus Engine Management incorporates all the features of the Link Engine Management system but has the benefit of having many more inputs and drivers so it can handle most functions simultaneously. The LinkPlus system also has the following:
OUTPUTS
*Fully Optioned - Shipped with all options enabled.
*Shipped as standard with 2m wiring loom, PCLink Tuning Software and mounting brackets.
*Laptop Tuneable with PCLink Tuning Software.
*Configurable trigger system. Factory Distributors and Crank Angle
Sensors can usually be used without modification.
*Tuneable with hand held Link Tuning Module.
*Sequential or Group Fuel Injection.
*Distributor, Multi-coil or Wasted Spark Applications.
*MAP, TPS, Vacuum and TPS+MAP load mapping. 10 Load rows.
*0 10000 RPM mapping in 500 RPM intervals.
*Idle speed control. Supports all factory idle speed solenoids and stepper motors.
*Fully configurable Electronic Boost Control.
*Configurable Cold Start Control.
*Configurable Closed Loop Dual Knock Control.
*Configurable Closed Loop Lambda Control.
*Launch Control and Flat Shifting.
*Anti-lag. Group N or “Road”.
*Two configurable auxiliary drives.
*Air Conditioning Control.
*Ambient air temperature correction.
*Soft and Hard RPM Limiting.
*Boost Limit.
*Acceleration Enrichment Control.
*Purge Control.
*Cooling Fan Control.
* Eight Injector Drives - Up to eight cylinders sequentially injected.
* Eight Ignition Drives - Either distributor, multi-coil (up to eight coils) or wasted spark.
* Inverted Ignition Drive - Compatible with Honda and Ford ignition systems.
* Fuel Pump Relay Control - Automatic fuel pump priming and control.
* Purge Control - Charcoal canister purge control.
* Radiator Fan - Radiator cooling fan relay control.
* Intercooler Water Spray - Intercooler water spray pump relay control.
* Air Conditioning Fan - Control of A/C compressor clutch and Condenser Fan.
* Tachometer - Low level output for factory tacho control.
* Shift Light - Current limited to directly drive a dash mounted LED.
* Two Auxiliary Drives - May be switched using either RPM or injector duty cycle.
* Boost Control - Directly drives a Wastegate Control Solenoid.
* Idle Speed - Drives two and three wire Idle Solenoids or four and six wire Idle Stepper Motors.
* Voltage regulated outputs - 5V and 12 V regulated outputs to power input sensors.
INPUTS
* Cylinder Pulse - Cylinder trigger input (see below).
* Sync Pulse - Multi-coil and sequential fuel applications (see below).
* MAP - Internal Manifold Air Pressure Sensor. Reads up to 250kPa (1.5 Bar or 22psi of boost).
* Engine Temperature - Engine coolant temperature sensor.
* O2 Sensor - Exhaust gas narrow band oxygen sensor input.
* TPS - Throttle Position Sensor.
* Battery Voltage - For injector open time correction.
* Ambient air temp. - For ambient air temperature mixture correction.
* 2 x Knock Sensor - Dual knock sensor inputs.
* External MAP - Allows use of 300kPa MAP sensor which reads up to 2.0 Bar or 30psi of boost.
* AC Request - AC system request. Increase idle speed before activating AC compressor clutch and condenser fan.
* Anti-lag - Activate Anti-lag via a dash mounted switch.
* Launch Control / Flat Shifting - Activate Launch Control or Flat shifting via a clutch pedal or gear lever mounted switch.
Trigger Conditioning Modules
• Single / Dual reluctor, true zero crossing detector with AGC.
• Nissan ECCS decode and timing offset correction.
• Single / Dual Optical or Hall Effect, active edge selectable.
• High Level (coil negative) for “fuel only” systems.
• Engine specific trigger conditioning.
As used by MRT & AVO Turboworld! |
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Spork
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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And Finally the best possible way of modifying your car's tuning:
Crack the standard ECU !
Your car's standard ecu has had millions and millions worth of development money spent on it, the fuel and spark maps for the standard engine, cold start, emissions, hot/cold running, limp home modes, electronic throttle control has been setup to be just right. Why throw all that out if you don't have to?
The BA ECU is so far advanced of ANY aftermarket ecu it's not funny. And you have already paid for it!
CAPA have a tuner box for BA's and are coming out with one for the EF/EL series. It allows you to access some/all??? of the factory tables and only adjust what you want. And these ecu's are really powerfull.
Changed injectors? only two numbers to change to adjust all the fueling requirements. Or go through all the tables. The damn thing has tables for low altitude, high altitude, low coolant temp, high coolant temp. And that's just the start.
Auto trans not quick enough? Don't worry about a "Shiftkit" - change the original programming.
Like some more throttle response - Tune the electronic throttle curve.
The same with traction control, fan operation, VCT, timing etc etc.
All the benefits of the factory system and you can just change what you want to suit your mods.
Best of all you can return your vehicle to stock easily and use the programmer in your next car.
www.capa.com.au |
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v8capri
Fordmods Parts Gopher
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:26 am Post subject: |
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This is why I use Delco on many cars that I do.
The factory stuff is awesome !
I get unbelievable economy and great power without doing any changes.
All just from doing a good tune first time. |
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hornet
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Does anyone know more about the CAPA tuner box for the EF /EL? I'd really like to know if anyone has one of these, and can comment on one compared to a unichip? |
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