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XR9UTE
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 Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: 351W into XE ute |
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Ok fellow rev heads,
It's time for change. I'm going to tame down my ute for work purposes.
Out comes the injected 351C and C4 and in goes the 351W and toploader.
I picked up another '90 F150 5.8 EFI engine for cheap($500).
So I've dummied the engine up in the bay(XE Falcon).
I've got EB 5.0L front dress which has caused the first problem...A/C compressor clearance of the left shock tower is non-existant. I will "massage" the shock tower for clearance.
The intake is an Edelbrock #3884 Performer 5.8(rear PCV) with the Performer #3882 upper. Some trimming of the support brace of the bonnet was required to clear the front side of the plenum. The throttle body TPS is very close to the bonnet but should be ok.
I was going to reco the E7 heads but it was going to go close a grand.
I found out about some GT40 Y303 ally heads brand new for $750 U.S. so I'm going with those.
I'll keep ya posted with pics etc as the project continues.
Cheers,
Pete. |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Pete - time for some stupid questions, dont see/hear much about these engines.
Did the 351W come with E7 heads? Little difficult for 5.8L to breathe through them, yes?
What kind of intake did they have? Do you use 302w gear (i.e. manifolds, heads, timing covers etc.) or is it all different (different deck height, yes?)...
Many 351 EECs supported by tweecer?
Whats the clevo going into? |
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XR9UTE
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| 4.9 EF Futura wrote: | Pete - time for some stupid questions, dont see/hear much about these engines.
Did the 351W come with E7 heads? Little difficult for 5.8L to breathe through them, yes?
What kind of intake did they have? Do you use 302w gear (i.e. manifolds, heads, timing covers etc.) or is it all different (different deck height, yes?)...
Many 351 EECs supported by tweecer?
Whats the clevo going into? |
Yep EFI 351's come with the same E7 heads as passenger car 5.0's the only difference is 1/2" head bolt holes.
They come with a dual plane long runner intake with tiny egg shaped ports and dual throat t-body with 2" blades. In a word "restrictive" but they make loads of torque at very low rpm(ie 329lb/ft @ 1900rpm) which is what they were designed for. They made 210 SAE net hp @ 3900rpm. These had flat tappet cams. The '94 and later engines had roller lifter blocks and made 230hp and 360odd lb/ft...I think they used the same 5.0HO roller stick.
Timing covers are the same windsors are windsors.
Yes the deck height is 9.5" so 5.0 intakes won't fit.
351 EEC's supported by TwEECer are "ZA0" ('95 Cobra R which is the only Ford produced car with a 351) and '93 - '95 F150 Lightning "IC1Y" etc. Otherwise there weren't any 351's used. These vehicles used the better flowing GT40 style intake and not the std F-series type and GT40 heads.
As far as std F-series is concerned there is some support for VEX1 which is 5.0L MAF California F150 with E4OD trans otherwise 49 states engines were Speed density and not supported. There is also a 5.8 MAF California Bronco EEC but like the VEX1 they are very hard to come by. I've given up trying to find either of these EEC's for a blown '95 Lightning Ive been tuning with TwEECer.
Pete. |
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XR9UTE
EFI Guru
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, the cleve might go into my Cougar unless someone buys it....I really want to keep the 390 in it.
Pete. |
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Black Betty
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| hey Pete just wondering where you picked the motor up from and if you know of any more that are going dirt cheap? |
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XR9UTE
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Black Betty wrote: | | hey Pete just wondering where you picked the motor up from and if you know of any more that are going dirt cheap? |
Got it from a 4WD wrecker in Midland. It was in bits and the EEC and the Distributor were missing oh and one big end cap!. I only knew about it because I fixed up a dodgy 351w into EB conversion that was done there about a year ago. I asked if it was still there and it sure enough it was.
Luckily I don't need the EEC and I'm going EDIS(direct ignition) with this engine and I'm using 302C rods in it.
If I find another I'll let you know.
If you want to do a conversion I'd just a buy a 351 short rebuilder from somewhere(Suburban imports over your way?). Or are you particularly after the truck intake etc?
Pete. |
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Black Betty
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| XR9UTE wrote: |
Got it from a 4WD wrecker in Midland. It was in bits and the EEC and the Distributor were missing oh and one big end cap!. I only knew about it because I fixed up a dodgy 351w into EB conversion that was done there about a year ago. I asked if it was still there and it sure enough it was.
Luckily I don't need the EEC and I'm going EDIS(direct ignition) with this engine and I'm using 302C rods in it.
If I find another I'll let you know.
If you want to do a conversion I'd just a buy a 351 short rebuilder from somewhere(Suburban imports over your way?). Or are you particularly after the truck intake etc?
Pete. |
Im after the motor for a conversion, I rang a couple of importers but they only wanted to sell me long reco motors, I will try suburban imports. |
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XR9UTE
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:43 am Post subject: |
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OK, a conversion for a car I take it?
Grab the "Just parts" magazine. There's usually someone in there with 351w shorts for sale.
Early C9 or D0 blocks are the strongest but it is unlikely you'll get one of those anywhere(they have a slightly shorter 9.480" deck). Most of the imported ones will be mid '70's to mid '80's type. Somewhere in the mid '80's they changed to a one piece rear main which is a little more desirable. The E9 blocks are the EFI engines and if you come across a F4 block it's got the taller roller lifter bores.
Pete. |
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XR9UTE
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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What do you mean?
$2100 for Ford factory reco 351w short is pretty damn good if you ask me.
In fact the prices for all those factory reco's are pretty good.
Pete. |
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xcabbi
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| What's the go with selling the yankee injected 302 engines for more than the aussie versions. EB HO's go for less and are almost the same engine. Do these guys think their customers are dum or something. |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| xcabbi wrote: | | What's the go with selling the yankee injected 302 engines for more than the aussie versions. EB HO's go for less and are almost the same engine. Do these guys think their customers are dum or something. |
Dunno - I assume you referring to the 302W multi point fuel for $3850? I guess depends on how reconditioned they are... can get aussie HO for about $2200 - $2400 and AU explorer motor for $4500 at wreckers down here in SA but bit of a lucky dip on their condition and kms... |
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XR9UTE
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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You gotta compare apples with apples. Comparing second hand engines with full reco engines is not fair. Go and buy a second hand 5.0 and reco the thing...see how much change you end up with.
Pete. |
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XR9UTE
EFI Guru
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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OK Lads,
Here's some photies;
Here's the 351 dummied up.
It has Edelbrock Performer 5.8 #3884 lower, Performer upper, AU 65mm t-body, AU front cover, AU cam encoder, Ford GT40 Y303 heads, Pacemaker 1 5/8" headers, Stock F-series rocker covers.
The next pic is of the piston to deck clearance(or lack thereof) of the 351w piston on the 302c rods that I will be using. They protrude 0.043" out of the hole. I will machine the crown down at least that amount or maybe .010" more to give me the desired 9:1 compression.
Currently I'm waiting for a Balancer,High Energy sump and some other small bits.
Pete. |
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XR9UTE
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Here's some port views of the Y303 heads;
Pete. |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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IS the cam encoder the piece of hardware sitting the dizzy would normally? Are they used in conjunction with a 36-1 wheel on the crank or does the cam angle sensor take care of it all for EDIS?
The manifold looks huge! bit of bonnet work required?
Rocker covers could use a clean 
So with the piston-deck clearance, what would happen if left as-is? Would they come into contact with something or is it just the compression issue?
How much power you expect this to make? Radical cam in there?
Sorry about all the q's... |
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XR9UTE
EFI Guru
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Posts: 1508
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Yes the cam encoder is where the dizzy normally is. It does not actually fit the 351 because the hole in the block is slightly larger and 5.0's have only a 5/16" oil pump drive whereas 5.8's have 5/16". I will use the top off the 5.0 one you see and adapt it to a cut down old 351 dizzy.
The cam encoder is just a single tooth to indicate to the EEC TDC on the firing stroke. Therefore it is only for start of injection timing on sequentially injected engines. The crank encoder is for the EDIS.
The intake is 10.83" tall which is pretty low. The extra 3" of engine height is the real reason the bonnet bracing must be trimmed slightly....otherwise it clears the XF bonnet.
It's just a dummy up....the rocker covers will be powder coated silver.
If the piston to deck clearance was left the way it is the pistons would smash into the heads; Gasket=0.039" thick, pistons sticks out 0.043" it goes bang!
They will be machined for zero deck.
Should make a nice low reving 350hp...stock 5.0L cam.
Cheers,
Pete. |
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XR9UTE
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, that should be 5.0= 1/4" drive, 5.8=5/16" drive.
Pete. |
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XR9UTE
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Here you can see why the stock F-series intake won't fit. You can also see how wide the EB-EL 5.0L bracketry sits on the 1.3" taller deck 351. The A/C compressor actually fouls the shock tower. Some grinding of some un-needed lugs on the compressor and some reshaping of the shock tower looks like it'll do the trick.
Pete. |
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XR9UTE
EFI Guru
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Just for fun....we dropped this M90 on top to see how it might fit. Obviously an M112 would be suited to this capacity of engine and being a little longer than the M90 it would actually fit quite easily. I do have the option shortly of buying a 2nd hand M112,inlet,t-body and MAF off an '03 Cobra so it may actually happen....that's why I'm keeping the compression down to around 9.0:1 on this buildup 
Pete. |
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