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JOSE
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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 Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:05 am Post subject: Woohoo first post, now on to my question. |
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| Does anyone have any goot pics of the CAPA stage 1 (6 psi boost) vortech supercharger kit on an EA-ED the ones on CAPA's site are crap, im trying to figure out if theer is enough room to fit in the plumbing for a side mount intercooler. |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| I know this not what you're asking but there's no need for a cooler on that particular application. The kit comes with water injection which should cool the charge adequately. You may find that you loose boost on a low-PSI setup like the stage 1 if you decide to run a cooler. |
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Waggin
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| 4.9 EF Futura wrote: | | I know this not what you're asking but there's no need for a cooler on that particular application. The kit comes with water injection which should cool the charge adequately. You may find that you loose boost on a low-PSI setup like the stage 1 if you decide to run a cooler. |
would it be sensible to consider water injection on a NA application? |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Waggin wrote: | | 4.9 EF Futura wrote: | | I know this not what you're asking but there's no need for a cooler on that particular application. The kit comes with water injection which should cool the charge adequately. You may find that you loose boost on a low-PSI setup like the stage 1 if you decide to run a cooler. |
would it be sensible to consider water injection on a NA application? |
I guess it depends what kind of water injection system you're considering. Have a poke around some rotary forums (cos i'm sure you've got plenty of spare time at the moment, hehehehe) and a lot of them run a second injector into the manifold for water injection. Apparantley can replace up to 50% of fuel with H2O... but of course all rotaries are turbo nowadays. Not just for cooling the air charge but think about it - more H and more O is always gonna be a good thang. Dunno if it qualifies as a catalyst but definately assists combustion.
My system very primitave (sorry CAPA). 3PSI boost closes a switch which turns a pump on which sprays water into the intake, just before the blower. Doubt if this would be much chop on a n/a system so if it were worthwhile, i'd look at a more complex manifold/cylinder injection system, much like methanol injection as i doubt intake charge temps would be too much of a problem on n/a..... |
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CHEF
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Water/meth injection is used on NA motors, usually to allow for some added advance timing, and good on high comp motors. |
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Waggin
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm.. I'll have to look into it. 2 people didnt laugh at me 
11.7:1 counts as Hi-comp... Could be quite interesting. |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Who said i wasnt laughing? Nah, just jokes. Yeah Chef covered what i should have - the injection system on my setup isnt for performance gains, more for improved reliability and greater resistance to a bad case of the knocks. Makes me sleep easier at night and at 5500rpm
With 11.7:1, i assume pinging is your new worst enemy as well. |
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Waggin
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| 4.9 EF Futura wrote: |
With 11.7:1, i assume pinging is your new worst enemy as well. |
I thought it would be too, but the new engine and 24lb/hr injectors seem to have overcome any issue re: pinging. I guess it will be a different story once the motec is in and tuned up.
If water injection means I can advance timing a bit more, and cram more Oxygen in there.. hopefully its worth a bit more power too. |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah more timing advance is the key. With boost its always better to err well into the side of caution, n/a probably allow you to operate closer to the pinging frontier (without the nervous fits, lol).
Did someone say MORE dyno time? I think they did  |
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JOSE
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:06 pm Post subject: because |
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| 4.9 EF Futura wrote: | | I know this not what you're asking but there's no need for a cooler on that particular application. The kit comes with water injection which should cool the charge adequately. You may find that you loose boost on a low-PSI setup like the stage 1 if you decide to run a cooler. |
i dont think the 6 PSI (stage one) CAPA kit even has water injection, i was thinking of buying the 6 PSI kit with the straight scroll compressor housing, and a 9 PSI S/C pulley and running it through an intercooler, so no need for water injection, and it comes out cheaper. |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: because |
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| JOSE wrote: | | 4.9 EF Futura wrote: | | I know this not what you're asking but there's no need for a cooler on that particular application. The kit comes with water injection which should cool the charge adequately. You may find that you loose boost on a low-PSI setup like the stage 1 if you decide to run a cooler. |
i dont think the 6 PSI (stage one) CAPA kit even has water injection, i was thinking of buying the 6 PSI kit with the straight scroll compressor housing, and a 9 PSI S/C pulley and running it through an intercooler, so no need for water injection, and it comes out cheaper. |
Interesting..... whatever you decide, make sure you have a good chat with the boys at CAPA. I found Justin was a champ to deal with. They're honest - if there's a way to make it work they'll help, if it's a no-go they'll tell you straight up.
May not be as easy as getting a new pulley, as there are a lot of tuning implications with upping the boost - fuel injectors come to mind. This is the difference between the different stages - they all use the same blower but have different s**t for fuel delivery - injectors, booster pumps and regulators. Not to mention the chip..... |
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EDXR8
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Woohoo first post, now on to my question. |
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| JOSE wrote: | | Does anyone have any goot pics of the CAPA stage 1 (6 psi boost) vortech supercharger kit on an EA-ED the ones on CAPA's site are crap, im trying to figure out if theer is enough room to fit in the plumbing for a side mount intercooler. |
I assume you are talking about a 6cyl. The Stage 1 6psi kits are Powerdyne blowers not Vortech. The Vortech blowers are only an option on the EF/EL engines as there will be clearance issues with the EA-ED manifold. If you want to go vortech, I would imagine you will need to do a manifold swap first.
The CAPA kits are ok for lower boost applications, but if you are planning on running more than 6-8psi be prepared for a lot of extra cost as you really need aftermarket computer and injectors etc.
As 4.9 EF Futura said, give CAPA a call. I also delt with Justin, and even though he is a holden guy  he gave me some good advice and options. |
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Felony
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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im contemplating the same kit, when you add up all the s**t you do first off to a na it almost equates to the same price of just slapping a capa kit on
Cheers |
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EDXR8
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Felony wrote: | | im contemplating the same kit, when you add up all the s**t you do first off to a na it almost equates to the same price of just slapping a capa kit on |
Exactly right, and nothing beats boost  |
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JOSE
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Woohoo first post, now on to my question. |
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| EDXR8 wrote: | | I assume you are talking about a 6cyl. The Stage 1 6psi kits are Powerdyne blowers not Vortech. |
Yeh that one, i though the CAPA kits came with the chip/injectors/pressure reg?, when i have the money i will have to start phoning people up and figuring it all out, untill then i cant really make any plans. |
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EDXR8
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| In most kits they come with a rising rate regulator which ups the fuel pressure with boost. Saves monsy as you don't need new larger injectors but for higher boost options there can be problems with this method. The chip again is designed well for stock engines with low to mid boost levels but if you have any other mods or want to up the boost you can't with that chip. It comes down to what power you want and how much money you are willing to spend. The basic powerdyne blowers are a nice easy blower to install but are fairly limited with max boost being around 8-9psi (which is fine for most sane people anyway). |
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