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Dr_Hoon
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
Age:29
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 Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:24 pm Post subject: BBM onto ED XR6 conversion - questions? |
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I have been reading about this conversion online and it seems quite common. Has anyone done this? Is it worth it? WHat is involved exactly?
One page had the cost at about $350 plus reprogramming of the computer. Is it possible to get a BBM EL computer or something and plug it in?
For only $350 it seems like a good upgrade. |
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Chicken
Technical Contributor
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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From memory, I think you need the EF/EL airbox, snorkle, manifold and ECU.
I believe it is worth it. Not sure about it only costing $350 though....sounds a bit cheap to me... |
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Jaysen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah I think this price sounds about rightfor the BBM only, however it would probably be easier to get the EL ECU as the EF runs coil packs and has a crank angle sensor that runs on the front of the timing cover. From memory I dont think that the ED and earlier had the mounting holes for this. I dont know it the earlier models had the hole for the knock sensor located under the BBM either, you might just have to run without one. ECU's vary in price from about $200 up. |
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Dr_Hoon
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
Age:29
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Just found this on Ford Forums:
| Quote: |
1. Main component groups to have ready:
- BBM Manifold (+ injectors + fuel rail + hoses + dipstick).
- PCV hoses.
- Brake booster hose.
- Heater system plumbing - including heater hoses (2 large + 1
small).
- Thermostat top cover + seal and top radiator hose.
- Airbox and airduct setup.
- Rocker cover - including bolts and in the case of using EF
airducts, the support bracket for the duct on
top of the rocker cover PLUS the extension
part that screws onto the second cover bolt
to support the front part of the duct - you'll need
the EF rocker cover bolts too in that case
- Wiring (manifold loom).
- Accelerator cable.
- Miscellaneous parts - heater pipe O rings.
- new rocker cover seal.
- T.Stat housing gasket if needed.
- manifold gasket.
2. Tasks to cover:
- Get manifold wiring sorted - ie. transplant ED loom over to BBM,
which will mean sortening some
wires, lengthening others and
maybe transplanting the ISC plug.
- Fit heater parts - heater pipe from pump.
- thermostat housing?
- thermostat top cover.
- top radiator hose.
- heater pipe from thermo housing.
- heater hoses - ie. from each pipe to the
bulkhead spiggots and the
small hose between heater
pipes.
- Work out vac plumbing - the trick is to concentrate on hooking
up the ED vac system to the BBM, not
try to make the BBM (EF/EL) vac
system somehow match the ED.
- Fit BBM manifold - take care aligning heater pipe support
brackets.
- fit oil dipstick.
- Attach fuel hoses to chasis pipes.
- Fit Rocker cover.
- Fit accelerator cable (small mod to pedal arm needed).
- Fit airbox and duct setup - this will require removal of some
material from the top of the radiator
shroud so that the snorkel can fit in
place.
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http://www.fordforums.com/showthread.php?t=22446
This is the sort of relatively simple modification that I like! Seriously! It is all bolt on stuff... Doing cams and all that is so boring. I think I might start collecting parts and aim to do it some time next year.
On one of the other threads it says someone dropped half a second off his qtr mile time... not bad!! here: http://www.fordforums.com/showthread.php?t=62662 ANd JMM's red EB runs a DEV5, engine rebuild, 3.9 diff and BBM to run 13.7 N/A which is not too shabby. I'd be bloody happy to run a 13 in a N/A Falcon. http://www.jimmockmotorsport.com/html/pitstop.php |
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drazull
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:25
Posts: 780
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| What the Hell is a BBM? |
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Andrew J
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Broad band manifold. Basically it has two different length runners switched by (i think) engine revs. This lets you have the best of the both worlds that different length intake runners gives you |
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Disco Frank
Fordmods Junkie
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| an what andrew measn is short runners give better torque at high rpm and the long runners give better torque at low rpm or is it the other wa around??? |
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drazull
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:25
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| ah, I see. |
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Low EL
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Its def a worthwhile conversion to do. As well as the parts listed earlier, you will need an ef/el dipstick. Seeing as you have an ED, you can use an el ecu, and just add the extra wires to run the vacum switch.
Use your original injector loom, and tps (from memory). However, even though the ed isc will bolt onto the bbm, use the ef/el one. It is slightly smaller, and if you dont, and you launch too hard, you will have a nice new dent in your bonnet (personal experience here). If you have cruise control, you will need to find a different location for the vacume switch, as it goes where the ea-ed cc system is, passenger side near firewall.
Whilst doing this conversion, a good idea would to be also fit thermo fans at the same time. The el ecu will be able to control these, again with a few extra wires.
Dont worry about the knock sensor, im not using one on mine, and havent had any probs.
With the throttle cable, it should fit straight into your existing pedal. Just a tip, when you fit it, remove the pedal from the car, it makes it sooooo much easier to do.
You might also find you need to mod the bottom of the ef/el air box, as with mine, some of the pollution lines were in the way, but nothing a saw and a bit of fb cant fix.
Also, any of the parts can be from ef or el, doesnt matter which, except for the ecu, which must be el.
Thats about all I can think of for now. Any questions, dont hesitate to ask. |
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Waggin
Site Admin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Low Na wrote: | If you have cruise control, you will need to find a different location for the vacume switch, as it goes where the ea-ed cc system is, passenger side near firewall.
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Cruise control is Drivers Side, Vaccuum switch is Passengers side. Shouldnt be a problem! |
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nutrok4
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:27 am Post subject: |
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howzit
would this conversion work on an 89 EA Falcon S 3.9 CFI with out putting in smart lock?? and if so how could you do it?
cheers |
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PC EB
Fordmods Parts Gopher
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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The EL ECU will plug straight in. I've got an EL GLI ECU in my EB II and it fired up first go. Put the fans in, all you need is some wire and two relays and they will work.
There is cruise stuff on both sides of the engine bay. I've got the switch for the BBM in the factory location and it fits fine. An EF/EL washer bottle will make the fit better too.
As LOW NA said, use your existing loom, from memory you have to lengthen the wires for the ISC, TPS and MAT sensor (manifold air temp). The plug for the ISC will also need to be changes
I chopped my brake booster hose, as well as the heater hoses. Might be an idea to change the long heater pipe from the water pump, as the hose on the end of it will rub on the manifold.
Bear in mind that unless you get a custom cable made up you will lose cruise control if you have it (EL cable doesn't fit EB/ED accuator) and your trip computer won't work 100%.
The shorter runners provide more power, the long runners provide more torque. They switch from long to short at 3700 RPM or there abouts. The extra torque was noticeable when I first put it on, but I've gotten used to it now.
nutrok4; you could do it, however you can't use the EL ECU. You can use an RPM switch to control the runners, however you won't get the fuel maps to match the runners like the EL ECU has. |
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voxace
Technical Contributor
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of stuff working...
Has anyone gotten a trip computer working in EA-ED with the EL ECU??
Can you transplant the internals of an EL trip computer into an EB housing and then run the wire??? |
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LSD
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| PC EB wrote: | | I chopped my brake booster hose, as well as the heater hoses. Might be an idea to change the long heater pipe from the water pump, as the hose on the end of it will rub on the manifold. |
If this is the pipe I think it is then it's not only a good idea to change it but also to replace it with a brand new part. Even if you buy the rest of the parts second-hand be sure to buy this one new. The reason is that, over time, the pipes can corrode and with the BBM in place, this one in particular is an absolute b**ch to remove and replace. I'm only going on experience with an EF though, a converted EA-D may well be a different kettle of fish. |
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PC EB
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Age:23
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:28 am Post subject: |
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I replaced the one on the passenger side coming out of the thermostat housing (I think you can get away with bending it down though). It'd be a good idea to replace the long pipe around the engine, however I took one look at it and didn't bother.
voxace; I thought about putting the EL internals into the EB housing, but I see a few issues. The EB trip computer gets injector pulse width from the ECU to calulate litres per 100km. It gets speed and fuel tank level signals from the dash cluster I believe.
Now the EL is totally different. The ECU gathers all info (coolant temp, fuel tank level, speed, etc) then sends them to the dash cluster. The trip computer gathers what info it needs from the dash cluster.
So in putting an EL ECU into an EB, you're actually sending way more info to the trip computer than it normally takes, hence the wrong signals (I believe, at least it makes sense to me).
I reckon you could put an EL cluster in the boot or something and then use that to run an EL trip computer, but it seems like a lot of f*cking around for little result.
Someone on FF was working on a box to extract the right signal from the ECU data line, I don't know what happened of that and I'm probably going to go to an EB ECU soon anyway. |
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