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AXR88U
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:34
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 Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:52 am Post subject: Stock HO block limitations ?? |
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Any one know what the HP limitations are for the stock block. 
I've heard they split up the guts. 
Also, what other blocks are an improvement over stock (is there a 4-bolt one ? ) and is there any where in oz that sells them.
I also need some recommendations on someone good to machine it (bore and deck it - square).
Thanks guys.  |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:18 am Post subject: |
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I believe the standard EFI windsor block is not trustworthy above 500hp.
Mr Landau is in the process of building a stroker engine and has fitted a girdle. There was a great series of posts on FM v1.0.
Maybe try Mr Landau's website as there's lots of good pics on there. |
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EDXR8
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| As said, 500hp is about the limit and plenty of guys in the US are pushing those limits quite a bit, especially with forced induction. That rating is for 5L engines, strokers will reduce that further. |
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XR8Chic
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:49 am Post subject: |
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you could always do a 4 bolt mains and girdle to the stock block.. thats what I plan to do when I stroke mine..
I have seen too many of EBXR8380's horror block pictures. |
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MrLandau
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Most of those horror block pictures have been nitrous users. Because N20 increases power in a very short space of time it tends to twist the internals very hard and screw things up bigtime - whereas a N/A non nitrous motor can get closer to 5-600 without destroying too much gear. Unfortunately - unless you have big compression and raise the upper rev limit to 7500- 8000, it would be virtually impossible to make 500n/a HP. The standard 5.0 block is flexible but a main girdle will not stop a stock block from cracking - just hold the bottom end together so you know where it all is when it goes bang.
Shane |
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AXR88U
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| MrLandau wrote: | The standard 5.0 block is flexible but a main girdle will not stop a stock block from cracking - just hold the bottom end together so you know where it all is when it goes bang.
Shane |
Do you think that the addition of a girdle will save my internals and heads (as thats where all the money is my donk) in the event of a block splitting ?
I think I am pushing around the 450hp mark, do you think I will run into any problems? Is it worthwhile getting a girdle? |
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EBXR8380
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:59 am Post subject: |
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A girdle won't help too much, but it will hold it together if it does..Btw the gearbox / bellhousing does a good job of that also..
Trouble is the main webbing is too thin...
But serously we are talking big power levels and driving "like you stole it" to break these blocks..It seems though the latter the blocks the thinner they are, especially with the runout h.o/ roller blocks...The lighter the rotating mass and the better ballanced the better..Imo a stroker with neutral ballance should be better....
The std hydro rollers won't let engine rev too high either, lighter mech lifters would be required to rev higher than 6500 rpm...With eec rev limit of 6250 removed... |
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MrLandau
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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The main idea of the girdle is to stop bearing "fretting" due to main cap movement. The longer main studs tie into the girdle which in effect - stiffens the main tunnel. The problem is - the main tunnel is only one of the weak spots - a lot of these blocks have cracked the whole main tunnel out of the block - most crack right down the centre of the lifter valley and break the block in half. From what I have seen on Corral - most of these broken blocks have been Nitrous users or people spinning there motors well over 7000rpm. On a stock block - the girdle is all you can do to try and save your reciprocating assembly if the block does crack - but if you want to se nitrous or a big power adder you need to be looking at a better block like the Dart or Ford motorsport R block.
And you 351 Windsor guys don't laugh - your blocks do exactly the same thing when the power level goes up...
Shane |
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AXR88U
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the insight guys 
I think that since I am not blowing or gasing the donk I should be OK with a standard block as I am only going to be taking it to 6500rpm and expecting about 430hp mark out of the 331.
Time will tell.
If it does split where they usually do then my heads should be pretty right anyway, and thats where most of the money is in this donk.
I'll keep my fingers crossed  |
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MrLandau
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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So - tell us the spes of the motor 
Shane |
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AXR88U
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:41 am Post subject: |
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AFR's, RPM II, 75mm TB, 80mm MAF, 30lb's, Custom cam(very juicy),Standard EEC V (will be changed once I have finished fiddling, maybe when chasing additional power !)   |
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MrLandau
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Sounds pretty close to my specs - AFR 185's, TrickFlow R manifold, 75mm Accufab TB, 42lb/hr injectors, XE282HR cam - but mines a 347.
Shane |
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AXR88U
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| MrLandau wrote: | Sounds pretty close to my specs - AFR 185's, TrickFlow R manifold, 75mm Accufab TB, 42lb/hr injectors, XE282HR cam - but mines a 347.
Shane |
Yours must have some serious poke about it as well.
That cam of yours is very close to whats in mine as well, nice and rough. Have you managed to get any dyno figures on that beast ?
Are you running a standard ECU or have you had to change it.
I'm still running the standard one and am wandering how much its holding it back (besides the 6250 rev limiter) and also how much better drivability you get going aftermarket as mine is a manual an a little bit of a hand full when taking off (as I was expecting it to be), but it a little lurchy when cruising at steady speed.
Rob. |
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MrLandau
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Mine is still on the engine stand
I have been busy trying to keep the would be GF happy the last couple of months and haven't finished it. A few peices (like my cam) haven't rocked up from the overseas suppliers but I am hoping to recify it next month
Shane |
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AXR88U
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Once you get that donk in you'll be smiling
As I was very happy, just that I keep on finding things that are holding it back now such as fuel pumps, EEC's, etc.
What sort of a box are you planning on running as the BTR job wont beable to handle that no matter what you do to it
I still hav'nt got all the bugs out of mine yet, but I guess its all just a matter of time fiddling with it |
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Macca
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| MrLandau wrote: |
And you 351 Windsor guys don't laugh - your blocks do exactly the same thing when the power level goes up...
Shane |
But you are talking about much more power than 500hp@flywheel and roller blocks are as rare as hens teeth (still much stronger than a 5.0L) so you go looking for a 351W from around late 70's, reto fit roller lifters and there is talk about safe 1000hp+ from a well prepped engine, but like any "mass production" block, not all are equal.
Curious, I have never seen a picture of a 351W, early or late roller with a split down the middle, if you have the pictures, can you post them, I will add them to my collection.
Here is just one 5.0L block, it is a classic.
Check out the rest of the pictures of it.
http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~falconv8turbo/technical/5.0l_roller_block_failure/
Mind you, 500HP@flywheel is a lot of HP on the street. |
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AXR88U
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:14 am Post subject: |
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With a failure like that, how do all the internals end up, reusable, which parts were ruined !
And what are the symptons that a crack has started ? Oil/water leak, water in oil ?? |
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EBXR8380
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Low oil presure and overheating through loss of coolant..There is no way a mains girdle will help there!!! |
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