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justfordima
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 Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:00 pm Post subject: a new invention? turpercharger |
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First post in this section, I feel special.
Anyway,Me and MitchG911 were talking about forced induction and difference between super chargers, and turbochargers... And he came up with a brilliant idea thought I would post it up here....
What if you were to have a turbo on the exhaust manifold, but this exhaust side of the turbo (whatever its called) is connected via a clutch of some sort, which is then connected to a puller, and then the crankshaft through a belt. Then the turbo would spool up using the crankshaft like a supercharger, but then when it hits boost, the clutch disengages and it works like a turbo from there working of the exhaust gases...
What do you think? what are the downsides? I just couldn't think of one...
Cheers |
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data_mine
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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ricers would buy it just for the name. 
As for mouting and plumbing/connecting it. I'd like to see how you'd manage to get exhaust manifold + intake + pod + intercooler + a drive belt to it.
But I'm sure theres some other reason why it hasn't been invented yet.
edit:
A better way (and doable now) would be a twincharger. supercharger for tyre frying low end torque, and to get you going until a BIG turbo spooled to cover the mid/top end. |
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justfordima
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:06 am Post subject: |
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the point of this, is efficiency, having a blower and a turbo at once, there's alot of waste, including drag on the crankshaft...that also restricts the turbo. And I'm still waiting to hear that reason why it hasn't been invented yet.... ps name is invented by MitchG911 lol, all bagging out goes to him for it  just kidding. If you say it in a retards voice, it doesn't sound that retarded lol.
Cheers |
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EBXR8380
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:57 am Post subject: |
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There is a nice black RX4 down at Rocco's Michinburry [sp] with an SR20 in it. Has the 2Lt Toyota supercharger on magnetic clutch and a turbo on other side.There is a valve on inlet to prevent presure exiting air cleaner to turbo...Nice car it has an IRS set up...
The guys at Haltech have a Rotory with similar set up...
It would be too hard to fit a belt to the turbo shaft itself as they spin up to 150.000 rpm...Personally I'd prefere a GOOD turbo set up, ball bearing etc....
There have been efferts of fitting an electric motor to turbo shaft, but again it runs into issues with high rpm..In most cases it would be better to fit smaller turbine side to aquire lower rpm turbo spool, at the expence of loosing power in upper rpm... |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| EBXR8380 wrote: |
It would be too hard to fit a belt to the turbo shaft itself as they spin up to 150.000 rpm... |
Yea i imagine it would be difficult getting any belt to grip a pulley small enough to spool a turbo. |
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Andrew J
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Exactly, the motors exhaust gasses are more efficient at spinning it than belts will ever be. That being said, the easiest thing to do would be to have two turbos, one small, one large. Or, even better, have two exhaust tubines, and one inlet. That way, the large turbine would be used to turn it faster at low revs and low volume of air, but would change to the smaller turbine at higher rpm so that it spins faster and isnt restricted. |
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Andrew J
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh and thats my idea, anyone who steals that will be in big trouble! |
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Happy
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| 4.9 EF Futura wrote: | | EBXR8380 wrote: |
It would be too hard to fit a belt to the turbo shaft itself as they spin up to 150.000 rpm... |
Yea i imagine it would be difficult getting any belt to grip a pulley small enough to spool a turbo. |
or you could use a small gear box and gear it up a bit, but then you are increasing energy use in one area to try and gain a bit in the other. I think if you managed to fit it all and got it working your total power output might be embarrasingly indifferent... |
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concorde
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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i can see 2 problems with this, 1 wouldbe the exhaust flow would be affcted to much by the exhaust turbine when the clutch is engaged and 2 is that the exhaust side of the turbo gets way too hot to even have a belt close to it let alone run on it asweel as the electrics for a electrical clutch system.
just my thoughts. |
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Macca
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| If you search around the web enough you will find it has been attempted, there was also an electric motor version, more done for supa dupa fuel economy than power, plus I think it became a generator when the turbo spooled up from exhaust gases. |
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fordgt290
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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yeah damage they will be using these electro turbos in the future which i think is a good idear.
will have no lag and can produce up to 40 amps not bad. |
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Bert
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Damage wrote: | | If you search around the web enough you will find it has been attempted, there was also an electric motor version, more done for supa dupa fuel economy than power, plus I think it became a generator when the turbo spooled up from exhaust gases. |
Damage is right. Some d***head on the JY turbo mailing list (I think its called) has been trying to make one for the last 2 years but I believe he wants to call his the elimnator or something to that effect.
In reality the correctly sized turbo charger for the application will outperform anything like a supercharger+turbo system. |
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justfordima
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well, thanks for the reply's, it was just something that got me thinking... why hasn't it been invented yet? lol... I can see the problems arising with heat, and rpm, as for backpressure, thats what wastegates are for? or I'm completely off track. Anyway, thanks for the input.
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EBXR8380
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Yes sort of backpressure is pressure in exhaust manifold before turbine..In this case...A wastegate works when boost is too high and open the gate to let off exhaust flow....
Here's some turbo tech ..hth...
http://www.turbomustangs.com/turbotech/main.htm |
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Marmo aka GRNGOB
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:42 am Post subject: |
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air filter->high mount turbo charger->low mounted supercharger->intercooler->tb
got around 5 psi of boost at idle, turbo spools up realy realy quick and just have the wastegate read the pessure from after the supercharger
it has been done before and worked really good |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Marmo aka GRNGOB wrote: | air filter->high mount turbo charger->low mounted supercharger->intercooler->tb
got around 5 psi of boost at idle, turbo spools up realy realy quick and just have the wastegate read the pessure from after the supercharger
it has been done before and worked really good |
5 pounds at idle?  How do you create boost with no load on engine? |
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data_mine
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| 4.9 EF Futura wrote: | | Marmo aka GRNGOB wrote: | air filter->high mount turbo charger->low mounted supercharger->intercooler->tb
got around 5 psi of boost at idle, turbo spools up realy realy quick and just have the wastegate read the pessure from after the supercharger
it has been done before and worked really good |
5 pounds at idle? How do you create boost with no load on engine? |
At a guess, one BIG a*** supercharger moving aheckofalot of air. Although I imagine it'd be a rough/high idle.  |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Or no bypass valve.... |
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data_mine
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah that's probaly it.
Trust me to go for the complex theory. |
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JR
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| There is one other option I saw a while back, and that is to have a large modified lpg tank hooked up to a big turbo, with a soleoid valve and an NRV. When the turbo is on boost, it charges the tank, and when you hit the throttlle hard enough, the solenoid opens giving full boost off the line until the turbo spools up. Great for drags, but I don't know how effective it would be on the street. Also the engine I saw it on was a rotary, and these reach full boost at fairly low RPM. |
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